Half Price Line Rental Cashback Dispute (advice please)

Mcbain_2 · 27 September 2005 at 7:06PM

Hello.

Well i might aswell start at the beginning.. I signed up with a 12month half price line rental deal with 3 through themobileoutlet. Didn't start off too well, they phoned me to say they couldn't authorise my £1.99 payment (they take this if you choose a free phone). They said they'd try again but they'd need to place a minimum fee of 99p. The did this twice. When i got my CC bill I found out that their original £1.99 attempt had gone through fine (on the day before they contacted me) and they'd made the two 99p transactions the following day. I contacted them to try to get them to refund this... no reply (something i'd have to get used to).

the first stage of cashback is at 6month. the t&Cs said send off a copy of your bill.. so that's exactly what i did.. scanned my bill and sent a copy. After the time had ran out for reclaim, I received a letter saying "You did not send an original bill therefore claim is void, our T&C clearly say original bill only" They sent a copy of their T&C which were the same as mine expect COPY was replaced with ORIGINAL (still says copy on their website). I tried phoning them on their 0870 number (sayno does have alternative yet) no answer and you get disconnected after 10 minutes meaning you have to start all over again... I eventually got through and was told.. "i'll have to phone you back" and guess what..no phone call. I sent several letters which were ignored until i sent a letter threatening Trading Standards and sent it recorded, 3 months after original claim I got my money back....

now the second part saga.

Their instruction for cashback are very ambigous (unlike CFW and phones4u). I asked several friends (including some who hold doctorates) if they understood what the procdure was from the T&Cs and none were correct according to my outcome. here are the T&Cs

"11.0 Cash Back and Half Price Line Rental Entitlements
11.1 All cash back and half price line rental entitlements are are redeemable in two stages, the first stage is at month 6, the second at month 12. Once you are in receipt of your sixth bill you have 28 days from the date your bill is issued, to claim your cash back entitlement. Where a claim is not made within this time period the cash back entitlement is lost. To claim the second half of your cash back entitlement, forward us your 11 and 12 months bill on your chosen network, again this must be with 28 days from the date shown on these bills.
11.2 All cash back and half price rentals must be made in writing with a copy of your 6th, 11th and 12th months bill. Once we are in receipt of these, please allow 14 days for delivery of cheques. "

I understood it as 2 stages to reclaim, but it says 11 & 12 months bills within 28days of the dates on these bills... this didn't make sense... sending separate would be 3 stages??? but then it says "must be made in writing with a copy of your 11th and 12th month bill implying they should be sent together. I was flumoxed...

I tried to contact them to confirm the procedure, but could never get through.

I decided to wait until I was in receipt of both bills and send them together within 28days of the 12th bill. I got a letter back saying cashback was void as 11th bill was not received within 21 days. hmm 21days another figure pulled from thin air!

I sent a letter saying their T&C were ambigous and implied sending them together as it states two stages to redemption not 3. their reply "you should have contacted us to confirm"

So what is my next move? any advice... what do you think to the T&Cs... was i just stupid or are they really vague instructions... i've seen Phones4u cashback instructions and they are very clear, concise numbered instructions...

help much appriciated!

Andy

PS. sorry for the essay.. plus i've not re-read it so i'm sure the spelling and grammar are awful!

haveagoade · 27 September 2005 at 7:29PM

Make sure of your facts......I dont have the time to go through them but if you are sure then, you can go to the small claims court very easily, and if you have a genuine case then I'm sure themobileoutlet will VERY quickly see the LIGHT and pay up also including YOUR new cost to MAKE em see the LIGHT.

Its pointless banging yer head against a wall with a stubborn company like that, You just gotta show em you mean It.....YOU WANT YOUR MONEY!

GOOD LUCK

Mcbain_2 · 27 September 2005 at 8:49PM

that's it though i'm not sure of my chances mate.. what are everyone elses opinion of those T&Cs?

Pagan98 · 27 September 2005 at 10:41PM

They seem to be arguing that cashback is payable in 2 stages, but that the claim process requires 3 bills to be submitted, each within 28 days of its date.
However, I don't think you have anything to lose by pursuing this. The T&Cs are at best poorly written and at worst intentionally mis-leading. I would write back stating that the T&Cs are misleading, you believe your interpretation to be a reasonable one, and that unless you receive your cashback within 30 days you will be pursuing a complaint via Trading Standards and reserve the right to puruse a claim via the the small claims track.

Mcbain_2 · 27 September 2005 at 10:52PM

Well i wrote them a letter stating that their T&C were misleading. their reply being "the two stages refers to us paying you the money back in two stages" and basically says that they think its painly obvious what you have to do...... which obviously isn't so... outcome.. they won't refund.

I'll write them another letter and do as you suggest..

Cheers

Andy

haveagoade · 28 September 2005 at 9:18AM

If you feel you have a case then go for it!........No MESSING, issue the claim via small claims ,it can all be done online.......and you'll be surprised how the company will come to their senses. Dont stall around with trading standards, they'll advise a small claim anyway at the end, if its a grey area of interpretation of t&c's the company wont want to go to court to be exposed.

Its a stand off.......and you gonna have to call their bluff!

Mcbain_2 · 28 September 2005 at 10:25AM

Ha! an interesting turn of events... the problem with the bill applies to myself and my girlfriend... i've been trying to find out if anyone had similar problems.. My friend who showed me this deal moved away and i've not spoken to him for ages, but i've just emailed him.. and guess how he interpretted the T&Cs.. yes that's right, same as my girlfriend and I.

He gave up on his claim but i've told him to stick at it as the more people we have with this problem, the more chance we have of winning at small claims court..

Cheers for the advice folks.. next thing is advice about small claims court... but i'll leave that for a while and see where a threatening letter gets me.

bargainaholic · 28 September 2005 at 11:16AM

I have just been through the exact same saga with a bunch of m*r*ns called Just3G. Their website T&C still says send "copies" of your bills. :mad:

Luckily, I have legal insurance as part of my home contents cover. They took the case on for me, & after the legal team made it quite clear they were taking them to small claims court, they agreed to pay the money as a "goodwill gesture", though still insist I'm in the wrong, & their T&Cs aren't ambiguous at all.

I'm still waiting for my money of course - cheque was alledgedly sent on the 28th August

Best of luck, & do keep with it. I'm sure this is all deliberate smoke & mirrors to stop people from claiming what is due to them, & we need to show these companies that they must trade fairly.

Guanxi · 9 October 2005 at 11:59PM

I cannot urge you enough to avoid all ONLINE cash back offers.

They are purposefully misleading and some are designed to reject upto 90% of all claiments irrespective of merit.

I got stung by JUST3G.co.uk. I lost my cashback on a irrelevent technicality that they claim voided my offer. I really dont understand it, but in a nutshell they claimed that I should have sent them 7 bills to show 6 months of good standing with three. They dont answer emails and their 0870 number charges about 10p a min to keep you holding before being cut off.

I have since been talking to people in the trade and they have told me the following to be so:
- Online retailors depend on rejecting a vast amount of their claims because they have no local presence and it easy to ignore emails and phone calls.
- THREE network is unique in NOT clawing back commissions if the dealer has followed procedures. In other words, one could default after a few months and the dealer would not lose anything. The whole cash back process is designed to be complicated so as to fustrate users. There isnt any real way of defrauding the dealer.
- Cash Backs are good but only use a business with a local physical presence. Here you can go in and have your claim processed in person. My contact who runs a physical business says, that his rejection rate for cash back is less then 3%, ie. 97% of all his customers get their money. The opposite seems to be true for online retailors. My contact tells me that he personally knows of online business that will never pay out a cashback no matter the validity of the claim.

In a nutshell, DONT do online tariffs that involve cashback. Only go for cash back where you can physically see the shop and drop in their claim.

Mcbain_2 · 10 October 2005 at 12:26PM

Did you try and get your money back from Just3g?

I've not heard anything back from the mobile outlet since threatening the small claims court... so i'll have to now look into the process of taking them to court i think!

Legal_Academic · 10 October 2005 at 2:18PM

Interesting to see this post on Just3G.co.uk reneging on their cashback deal again (and again and again).

A friend of mine recently obtained a County Court judgment against Just3G.co.uk for exactly this!

There are more comments about this rather dubious retailer here:

http://www.blagger.com/db4/company_id/2812/companyname/Just3g-Communications.html

Guanxi wrote:

I cannot urge you enough to avoid all ONLINE cash back offers.

They are purposefully misleading and some are designed to reject upto 90% of all claiments irrespective of merit.

I got stung by JUST3G.co.uk. I lost my cashback on a irrelevent technicality that they claim voided my offer. I really dont understand it, but in a nutshell they claimed that I should have sent them 7 bills to show 6 months of good standing with three. They dont answer emails and their 0870 number charges about 10p a min to keep you holding before being cut off.

I have since been talking to people in the trade and they have told me the following to be so:
- Online retailors depend on rejecting a vast amount of their claims because they have no local presence and it easy to ignore emails and phone calls.
- THREE network is unique in NOT clawing back commissions if the dealer has followed procedures. In other words, one could default after a few months and the dealer would not lose anything. The whole cash back process is designed to be complicated so as to fustrate users. There isnt any real way of defrauding the dealer.
- Cash Backs are good but only use a business with a local physical presence. Here you can go in and have your claim processed in person. My contact who runs a physical business says, that his rejection rate for cash back is less then 3%, ie. 97% of all his customers get their money. The opposite seems to be true for online retailors. My contact tells me that he personally knows of online business that will never pay out a cashback no matter the validity of the claim.

In a nutshell, DONT do online tariffs that involve cashback. Only go for cash back where you can physically see the shop and drop in their claim.

Half Price Line Rental Cashback Dispute (advice please)

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