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**BEWARE REVERSE CHARGE TEXTS**Serious Fraud is o...
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**BEWARE REVERSE CHARGE TEXTS**Serious Fraud is occurring right now!!
I have a Vodafone PAYT SIM that I use infrequently.
My partner got a Nokia N95 at the weekend and was hunting for compatible games on the internet.
One site offered a "Free Game Download" ... 'Just enter your mobile number to be sent a link' the link sent in the second or third SMS from 85066 was on http://wap.zingtones.tv
Rather than use her normal SIM, to avoid spam texts we used my Vodafone PAYT number. That's all we gave. Just the number. No names, no agreements, no registration, no Ts&Cs.
Sadly the fraud had begun ...
Vodafone tell me that BBC News have reported this problem recently ... the 85066 texts I received cost £1.50 each TO RECEIVE!!!
I only had to open them to incur the charge.
Had I not noticed something odd about the texts and my PAYT balance, and had I not pressed to speak with a manager at Vodafone 191 I would still be being charged on a regular basis. Luckily the initial balance on my PAYT account was low and had soon dropped below £1.50. I was told that two further texts were queued to my PAYT number and they would be sent by the network when I had topped up (and would take £1.50 each from my new topped up balance should I be daft enough to open them instead of just deleting them.
Vodafone gave me a geographic number for the company responsible for fraudulently taking money from my Vodafone account. I can say FRAUD because I know I have been defrauded.
Vodafone seem to be having trouble calling it the same thing...
I said I'd come here and help them crystallise their thoughts on the matter.
The number of the company responsible is 01706 221777. They might be known as 'Mobile Streams' but the website seems to be something to do with Zing. Whether thats the same Zing that Dell are supposed to have bid to takeover, I don't know... http://www.zing.net/press.html , and I don't really care. It is careless of major companies to allow their brands and systems to be used in defrauding customers. That's why I pressed Vodafone to the extent that I told them that they would be aiding and abetting a fraud unless they did something about my report and refunded my money.
I can't believe that a mobile customer opening a text from 85066 is all that is required for Mobile Streams or whoever to dip their hand into the customer's wallet to the tune of £1.50...
Vodafone said they are working on the problem (alongwith all the other networks).
I think they'll need big reminders from affected MSE'ers.
Last edited by peterbaker; 22-10-2007 at 9:16 PM..
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this happens so often, at least you had some contact with the company
some people just randomly start getting chargeable texts
if you text back to the number 'STOP' literally just 'STOP' they have to cease sending you any more messages
I am not lucky. I am am just clear where I stand in this grot-pit we sometimes call the 'remarkable' UK economy.
I won't stand for Vodafone or any other company I have an account with who have permitted fraudulent transactions to occur telling me "It's not our fault" or "It's not us taking the money" or "It's not just us it's a problem with all the networks"...
You don't get it, do you? There is no fight to be had ... but there is justice to be done, and we all need to get with the programme to achieve zero tolerance of unscrupulous scum who dare to rip us off in the name of 'business', and zero tolerance of uncaring customer service from the big companies whose brands, accounts and systems are exploited to achieve the rip-off.
It's easy when you think about it. If we each did our bit, the networks would have to employ specialist enforcers and we'd run half these crooks out of the country in a week.
And Peter,
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterstannard
Why people bother with these short codes for ringtones, games,TV voting etc I will never know.
The reason people use them is because they are promoted as an arrangement whereby their mobile network controls the transaction via a protected electronic account not disimilar to a bank account. You do use banks I presume?
Last edited by peterbaker; 22-10-2007 at 10:41 PM..
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you don't have to 'open' the texts messages to be charged. you are charged as soon as you receive them. Or more-over as soon as you have credit and the text passes through the network's charging system.
the T&C's are generally advertised on the site somewhere, or you are referred to a site at some stage.
Your acceptance of these terms is through sending an SMS to the 5-digit code.
your contract is with Vodafone. Vodafone have a contract with 3rd party SMS companies who in turn provide you with the 'service' of games.
When you buy a can of Cola from sainsbury's, you have entered into a contract with Sainsbury's for the sale of the product. However, as the manufacturer of the item, you have an asymilated contract with the company. which is why you can sue them if the prodcut is defective.
In much the same way, the T&C's of your contract will allow for the provision of the agreements with 3rd part SMS companies.
When you spoek to a manager, he did not 'see your point of view'. He merely understood it would be more efficient to keep you sweet by offering to return your £10. This keeps you happy, keeps him and you off the phone, and probably saves time in dealing with your issue. Time costs money. If it had been £30,000 and you had used the service but was unhappy... he would have directed you to the company to make a complaint, and would not have just written off your bill.
If you read your contract, you will see something to the effect of the agreement i mention above.
It would be ludicrous to believe that you are not bound by the T&Cs, because this is a very lucrative business for both network and service providers.
On the other hand, if it is a scam (you never signed up to it, never were shown any T&Cs etc..) the issue would still need to be resolved (generally) with the service provider (ie, the 5-digit short-code provider). As although Vodafone may bill you, they are billing you based on services supposedly delivered to you. but in most cases, if the amount is low, companies will tend to refund and appologise to keep you happy.
proplusplus
Information provided is offered as a guide, and should not be deemed to be 100% accurate/correct. Please verify with the appropriate company/legislation for confirmation. Always seek verification to ensure you do not encounter future problems!
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I too have also been the victim of this type of fraud on more than one occasion. It's worth pointing out that providers take a cut of the profit from these texts (in the region of 15p for a £1.50 text I think). I found that 'reminding' Vodafone of this was a fairly effective counter to the 'it's not our fault' line.
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Interestingly, it was Vodafone that chose to advise me that they don't make any money from these £1.50 texts ... maybe they are talking about net profit after they've finished dealing with clued-up MSE'ers
Interestingly again perhaps, it was Vodafone that advised me that not opening the texts and deleting them saved the charge; and furthermore, it was Vodafone that advised me that there was some kind of automatic delayed delivery of this type of "Reverse Charge Text" until after your balance had been adjusted so it would at least match the charge of the text if opened ....
Sounds like the networks are well embroiled with this wolves-at-the-door type "theft" .... as wantmemoney succinctly puts it
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you don't have to 'open' the texts messages to be charged. you are charged as soon as you receive them. Or more-over as soon as you have credit and the text passes through the network's charging system.
the T&C's are generally advertised on the site somewhere, or you are referred to a site at some stage.
Your acceptance of these terms is through sending an SMS to the 5-digit code.
your contract is with Vodafone. Vodafone have a contract with 3rd party SMS companies who in turn provide you with the 'service' of games.
When you buy a can of Cola from sainsbury's, you have entered into a contract with Sainsbury's for the sale of the product. However, as the manufacturer of the item, you have an asymilated contract with the company. which is why you can sue them if the prodcut is defective.
In much the same way, the T&C's of your contract will allow for the provision of the agreements with 3rd part SMS companies.
When you spoek to a manager, he did not 'see your point of view'. He merely understood it would be more efficient to keep you sweet by offering to return your £10. This keeps you happy, keeps him and you off the phone, and probably saves time in dealing with your issue. Time costs money. If it had been £30,000 and you had used the service but was unhappy... he would have directed you to the company to make a complaint, and would not have just written off your bill.
If you read your contract, you will see something to the effect of the agreement i mention above.
It would be ludicrous to believe that you are not bound by the T&Cs, because this is a very lucrative business for both network and service providers.
On the other hand, if it is a scam (you never signed up to it, never were shown any T&Cs etc..) the issue would still need to be resolved (generally) with the service provider (ie, the 5-digit short-code provider). As although Vodafone may bill you, they are billing you based on services supposedly delivered to you. but in most cases, if the amount is low, companies will tend to refund and appologise to keep you happy.
I searched with Google and found this article here, thank goodness I am a sceptic and used to detecting fraudulent offers, I thought this was likely to be a reverse charge scam.
Thanks for the info.
By the way, I found the scam sites using a Google search, as SPONSORED ADS, perhaps someone should complain to GOOGLE for aiding and abetting these scum, against the Terms that Google have, of NOT BEING A SCAM when Adwords are booked by advertisers???
Last edited by mateypeeps; 30-01-2008 at 1:03 PM..
this has happened to me with the same number, i was sent three messages taking £5 credit of mine. i have had this happen so many times i delete these messages without reading them, i got these three messages yesterday and deleted without reading to find i was STILL charged for these messages, i am also on vodafone!
It doesn't help many of the people here, but if you are on T-mobile, there is a charge to account bar that you can activate to stop receipt of chargeable texts, I believe.
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this happens so often, at least you had some contact with the company
some people just randomly start getting chargeable texts
if you text back to the number 'STOP' literally just 'STOP' they have to cease sending you any more messages
I had to do the same and finally they stopped sending me texts and taking my credit from my phone .
Also beware MOBILE LOCATE .co.uk , you sign up for free 30day trial ,and if you dont read the very small print they take off your card an anual subscription fee 180 pounds approx ,try getting it back , a call centre in India ,no chance .
I had 5 from the short code 85099, they charged £1.50 a time, I phoned Vodafone and demanded my money back, they refused but they have changed my mobile number for free, so end of problem, but I am now chasing the company below for a refund, as I did not request any service from them.
I had 5 from the short code 85099, they charged £1.50 a time, I phoned Vodafone and demanded my money back, they refused but they have changed my mobile number for free, so end of problem, but I am now chasing the company below for a refund, as I did not request any service from them.
There is actually a "Ts & Cs" button on the page it links through to, but it is partially hidden. It's at the bottom left if you want to play "spot the Ts & Cs".
And those Ts & Cs read, inter alia:
Quote:
# First Download is Free.
# This is a subscription service, it will cost £3 per week until you send STOP to 85066.
# Download up to 5 tones or graphix per week with our Mobile package.
# You will be sent 2 x £1.50 reverse billed messages per week.
If you want to complain about this sort of advertising, you need to complain about the source page (not the page with the Ts & Cs on) to the ASA, as they won't investigate advertisements on a dodgy company's own site. Although Pointer (the website owner) are Italian they are still bound by the ASA as they are advertising to UK customers and promoting a UK-run and targeted service.
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Zingtones are owned by a company called Red Circle and they can be contacted on 00353 12311224 (Ireland) or help@red-circle.com
When my son's (aged 10 years old) mobile account was debited each week by £3.00 (£1.50 per text received) and I knew that he hadn't "opted in" to receive such messages I contacted Red Circle and they sent the following email:
Your son’s number has been blocked from our database effectively canceling all subscriptions.
The short code that messages are being received from is 85066. This is a subscription short code.
However, upon reviewing your son’s records, I cannot see an obvious ‘opt in’ from his number.
During the download process the person ordering the content has to enter their number to collect their order from the WAP site. However, occasionally if a person ordering content inputs their number into the database incorrectly, the number that ends up receiving the service messages belongs to somebody else. From reviewing your son’s records it would appear that this is what happened here.
You are entitled to a full refund of all charges incurred.
As the refund will be in the form of a cheque, please reply with the name and address of the person to whom the cheque is to be made payable to.
There are two pending messages on this subscription which I regret to inform you I cannot stop from being delivered.
If you do not wish for your son to receive these messages, I recommend that you do not top up his phone for eleven days. The messages will expire after this time frame.
Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps. Take care over copyright. Use excerpts and links rather than copying long text. This site asserts copyright on all comments posted on the board.
Pls be nice to all MoneySavers. There's no such thing as a stupid question, and even if you disagree courtesy helps.
**BEWARE REVERSE CHARGE TEXTS**Serious Fraud is occurring right now!!
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