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NRL Scheme-As a tenant should I be witholding tax to pay to CNR/IR-or am I deluded?!
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broclo
Posts: 5,065 Forumite
:hello:
Have issues and I was wondering if anyone can tell me whether i'm correct or making myself out for a fool :rolleyes:
Landlady emigrated to Oz, few weeks before she rented to me, I get LHA, her brother is dealing with the rental as far as general communication, but I am to pay the rent to her bank account, so he is not an 'agent'. So far they have recieved 1 months rent, in full, no deductions whatsoever.
I spoke to him regarding information I had discovered regarding the NRL tax and he basicaly started throwing a complete hissy fit, as far as he is concerned, there is no discussion, I am 100% wrong and he is 100% right due to his knowledge from his job.
I sent the following email to him today, can anyone give me ideas of which party is giving me the correct info, I am NOT trying to be awkward, but I am trying to PROTECT myself.
TIA X
Dear ***,
Further to your call today when you told me that I am to pay the rent in full, including the tax, direct to Mrs ***, I spoke to the 'Centre for Non-Residents' within the Inland Revenue(CNR).
They have confirmed that I am indeed correct in my understanding of the 'Non-Resident Landlords Scheme.
They have advised that as I have not recieved notification that the Non-Resident Landlord has been aprproved to recieve the rental income with no tax deducted.
They additionaly checked whether Mrs *** has registered with the scheme, which she was required to do before leaving the UK and found no record of registration.
They confirmed that as Mrs *** is due to be a Non-resident for over six months and rental income is due to be paid directly into a UK bank account, by myself, that she falls within the NRL scheme.
They have taken my details and registered my information as I am liable for the tax on the rental income(currently 20%). I will need to complete assesments on 30th June, 30th September, 31st December and 31st of March each year.
CNR have also confirmed that I must deduct from the next payment to Mrs ***, the 20% from the previously paid Rental Payment (confirmation of this can be found on page 11 at http://landlordstax.co.uk/pdf/lts_ir_140.pdf)
CNR have also informed me that I need to issue with a NRLY by the 5th of July each year, to include information up till 31st of March.
You assure me that you are 100% sure that I have the above information wrong in my telephone call to you just now and that if I withold tax, to pay as I have been informed by the CNR, that I will be doing so wrongly and therefore commiting benefit fraud.
Please inform me how the above information is incorrect as I am more than happy to not be found liable for the tax and having to work within the NRL scheme. However, at this stage I am having to follow the advice from the CNR that if Mrs *** is not signed up to the scheme, it's a legal requirement for the tenant or agent to deduct the tax from the rent and send it to the Revenue.
Kind Regards
Miss ***
Have issues and I was wondering if anyone can tell me whether i'm correct or making myself out for a fool :rolleyes:
Landlady emigrated to Oz, few weeks before she rented to me, I get LHA, her brother is dealing with the rental as far as general communication, but I am to pay the rent to her bank account, so he is not an 'agent'. So far they have recieved 1 months rent, in full, no deductions whatsoever.
I spoke to him regarding information I had discovered regarding the NRL tax and he basicaly started throwing a complete hissy fit, as far as he is concerned, there is no discussion, I am 100% wrong and he is 100% right due to his knowledge from his job.
I sent the following email to him today, can anyone give me ideas of which party is giving me the correct info, I am NOT trying to be awkward, but I am trying to PROTECT myself.
TIA X
Dear ***,
Further to your call today when you told me that I am to pay the rent in full, including the tax, direct to Mrs ***, I spoke to the 'Centre for Non-Residents' within the Inland Revenue(CNR).
They have confirmed that I am indeed correct in my understanding of the 'Non-Resident Landlords Scheme.
They have advised that as I have not recieved notification that the Non-Resident Landlord has been aprproved to recieve the rental income with no tax deducted.
They additionaly checked whether Mrs *** has registered with the scheme, which she was required to do before leaving the UK and found no record of registration.
They confirmed that as Mrs *** is due to be a Non-resident for over six months and rental income is due to be paid directly into a UK bank account, by myself, that she falls within the NRL scheme.
They have taken my details and registered my information as I am liable for the tax on the rental income(currently 20%). I will need to complete assesments on 30th June, 30th September, 31st December and 31st of March each year.
CNR have also confirmed that I must deduct from the next payment to Mrs ***, the 20% from the previously paid Rental Payment (confirmation of this can be found on page 11 at http://landlordstax.co.uk/pdf/lts_ir_140.pdf)
CNR have also informed me that I need to issue with a NRLY by the 5th of July each year, to include information up till 31st of March.
You assure me that you are 100% sure that I have the above information wrong in my telephone call to you just now and that if I withold tax, to pay as I have been informed by the CNR, that I will be doing so wrongly and therefore commiting benefit fraud.
Please inform me how the above information is incorrect as I am more than happy to not be found liable for the tax and having to work within the NRL scheme. However, at this stage I am having to follow the advice from the CNR that if Mrs *** is not signed up to the scheme, it's a legal requirement for the tenant or agent to deduct the tax from the rent and send it to the Revenue.
Kind Regards
Miss ***
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Comments
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What do you have in writing from the IR? Don't get into a debate, make the letter shorter it's quite adversarial at present. Also don't address the letter to the brother, write to the landlord c/o the UK address you have been supplied with. Send it recorded delivery, no phone calls or email.Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0
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What do you have in writing from the IR? Don't get into a debate, make the letter shorter it's quite adversarial at present. Also don't address the letter to the brother, write to the landlord c/o the UK address you have been supplied with. Send it recorded delivery, no phone calls or email.
I only found out about the scheme last night. Rent is now due also.
LL's bro called today and I informed him, he threw hissy fit, said I would not further speak to him regarding the matter by telephone as he was not 'communicating', but ranting. He said that I would :rolleyes:
So winged him the email quickly as he has a habit of constant telephone calls/texts.
I spoke to CNR between the call and the email.
LL Bro has replied, saying I should not 'assume I know the answer to everything' and I should 'keep my nose out of her residence status and tax affairs'.
I sent him a quick email back basicaly saying I was not assuming anything, hence the call to the CNR and I was not sticking my nose in, just keeping to my responsibilities in regard to liabilities.
I will send a proper letter over the issue, admitedly it was very rushed, a bit blunt too, but he freaked the hell out of me on the telephone saying he was going to tell the council I am committing benefit fraud etc by witholding the LL's tax etc.
Anyway, either way, the above was sent. I will refuse communication other than letter though. But can you tell me if I am indeed correct(even if maybe not going about it the right way) in what I am doing?
They are not too happy with me as I've discovered (an email admittance today also) that they have failed to protect my deposit in a TDS, stating the reason they did not comply within 14 days was in case I had rent arrears, which of course is irrelevant.
I have yet to raise the issues that there is no EPC or Gas Safety Cert...fun, fun, fun!0 -
lol Fire Fox, was being nosey and looked at your posts as you have a fair few in your time so far here etc...
You know alot of stuff, about a lot of stuff!0 -
Well if you have spoken to the relevant authorities then I think you are correct.
HMRC page link below, but I guess you know all that as you've read the full guide you linked to above.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/nr_landlords.htm
Normally a landlord would appoint an agent in this country to do the biz, but without an agent it does fall to the tenant. I'd suggest the landlord engage an agent who knows what they are doing as it's clear this LL and brother haven't a clue.
The brother should at least be prepared to research the tax issue for himself and then have a civilised conversation about it. If he continues with his bad behaviour then I'd go to the council tenancy relations officer, shelter or citizen's advice and hopefully they will warn him to behave. Keep all records as harassment of a tenant is an offence.
I'd be worried about lack of gas safety cert.
It really is appalling that tenants in this day and age have to put up with such ignorance and arrogance from the person responsible for the roof over their heads.0 -
Yes, I would have frankly thought the LL would have done this, done a gas safety check, epc, protected my deposit etc
I'm 'presuming' it may be avoidance of paying it as the LL has had debt collectors etc visit here for unpaid bills that are registered in her maiden name.
I understand the scheme was set up as it is easier to chase a tenant than a NRL :rolleyes:
I'm not trying to be a pain...but I do not want to find my self liable at the end of all this. You can avoid a lot of people in life...but there is no escape from the tax man!
So can anyone see any reason, why, if I'm paying direst to her uk bank and I've not recieved permission from the authorities that I should not pay it direct, to protect myself?0 -
I'd be worried about lack of gas safety cert.
It really is appalling that tenants in this day and age have to put up with such ignorance and arrogance from the person responsible for the roof over their heads.
You added more to your post since I typed my reply
I am going to send a seperate letter about that issue, it is concerning as I have childen, however in the mean time I have bought a carbon monoxide tester(decent one) to settle myself somewhat.:D Madness as the Trading Standards will fine them :rolleyes:
Funnily enough, from the way I have been ranted to by text, phone call and email, it would appear they believe I am the nightmare. I just need to protect my finances and safety...bet I do not get the AST renewed eh :rolleyes:. Although I'd appeal if if I believe they are only doing so, due to me asserting my rights and responsibilities
They have no understanding that the law applies to them and I feel unfortunately that I am going to have to take court action for the deposit + x3 in regard to the lack of compliance with the TDS. Unfortunatey, as it would appear the LL is suffering financial difficulties it could affect them greatly, but if I do not in may mean I never see my deposit again.
It is hard asserting your rights and responsibilities even if LL's are not complying, but if they are knowingly breaking the law and putting you at risk, are you really left with another option? It is not nice to have to resort to these measures though.:(
I guess if people have backgrounds as bankers and accountants, they just do not expect a single mother to do a thing, so play the law the way they want to, thinking they will not get touched
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Sorry that I edited the post, I lost internet connection and made a balls up.0
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After thought was:
I take it you have checked the definition of agent to make sure the brother doens't qualify, not that you should have to, if he was acting as agent then he should have been aware to let you know that!!!0 -
I take it you have checked the definition of agent to make sure the brother doens't qualify, not that you should have to, if he was acting as agent then you should have been told and he should have been aware to let you know!!!
The brother should at least be prepared to research the tax issue for himself and then have a civilised conversation about it. If he continues with his bad behaviour then I'd go to the council tenancy relations officer, shelter or citizen's advice and hopefully they will warn him to behave. Keep all records as harassment of a tenant is an offence.
lol you keep updating your reply
But you are raising some very important issues, thank you
The brother is acting(been told verbaly)to aid communication as the sister lives in Oz(although she has called at 10:50 at night still :rolleyes:). The address for serving letters is c/o the brother. I do not have LL's Oz address.
Apparently for him to be an Agent(which would make him liable, not the LL), I would need to pay rent to her through him. Therefore, as I pay direct into the LL's UK bank account, there are no agents and thus the onus falls upon me to pay the tax at 20% and the 80% to the LL. Well..that's the way i'm 'reading' it/HMRC explained it today?
The brother just kept shouting at me that he was 100% correct, when I suggested that we then communicated non verbally he said that I would take his calls! I never said I was correct, I just said that I was 'led to believe' and that although rent was now due, I felt that this had to be looked into asap as I could be liable.
I think I may write the LL/Brother a letter informing them that I will not correspond via any other method other than written postal letter on this issue as I feel communication has broken down. I may ask CAB to follow it up as well, that is a good idea.
Thank you, it is appreciated greatly
Always 'something' :rolleyes:0 -
After thought was:
I take it you have checked the definition of agent to make sure the brother doens't qualify, not that you should have to, if he was acting as agent then he should have been aware to let you know that!!!
I think I just answered that...admist my waffling!
It seems he is not due to not being involved in the monies whatsoever, ie: They are paid direct from Tenant to LL.
I'd love it if were the agent though, as in all honesty I'd rather not have to fiddle around dealing with the tax issues
Thank you so much franklee
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