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I got it. Time stamped on twitter with part of the signalage and car visible.0
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Absolutely relevant; this will make an interesting defence.
Charging an electric vehicle is not 'parked' - does not contravene the rules set by the Government which are MANDATORY:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/237412/dft-circular-strategic-road.pdf
''PARKING CHARGES
B19. At all types of site, where a charge is to be levied for parking beyond the
mandatory two free hours, the charging regime must be clearly displayed
within both the parking areas and the amenity building. Drivers must at all
times be afforded the opportunity to pay the charge on the site, before leaving
and without the necessity to use a mobile phone. Cash payments must be accepted.''
And it has a table showing that 2 hours PARKING allowance is 'mandatory'.
If the sign at the charging point offers no parking at all then this is nothing like the Beavis case and your defence can include the fact that no parking occurred, if you were charging the vehicle the whole time. The only sign seen was about vehicle charging and made no offer, granted no 'licence to park' and the car was not parked. And no doubt the sign did not warn of a parking charge and even if it did, it would not be saved by the Beavis case because you cannot form a contract (Beavis style) for parking, if the signs prohibit that. Like this case, that is attempting to make a forbidding offer with a penalty attached, which is not recoverable:
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/pcm-uk-signage-does-not-create-contract.html
This exposes why it is wrong that ANPR cameras are positioned at services to catch cars driving into the entire site, rather than positioning the ANPR only to pick up the car park boundary at the cafe/shop car park, etc.
This is not one to offer money to settle IMHO - it is one to fight.
I would start by bothering PE and the Services by email, informing them that the claim arrived out of the blue, no parking charge was ever received and PE made no attempt to trace you. State what the vehicle was actually doing on site and press them BOTH to cancel it. As I said, I do not feel this is a case to offer them money to settle it, why should you? I would really push and push for a week to get this one completely cancelled and the claim withdrawn - and tell PE that if they do not, you will claim your full costs should you prevail at a hearing, since you have contacted them as soon as you knew about this and their conduct has been vexatious and unreasonable (not just with fining a vehicle which wasn't parked, but also then not making any attempt to trace your address and just attempting to get a default CCJ).PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
When you contact PE & the Motorway Service Area stick to the bare fact that you were charging your car. Don't go off piste & start talking about having a rest & not noticing the time.
BTW How long does your car take to charge fully? More than 2 hours I assume.0 -
Up to 4H, it's only AC charge, I cant use the fast 30minute chargers.
At the time, I didnt worry or took notice of time as the signalage didnt had any time limits. I'm very well used to London signs, which specify the maximun ammount of time a vehicle can charge or park and charge, so I guessed that if standard chargers are offered, in adition to fast chargers, they should account for the aditional charging time.
I called Ecotricity Yesterday and I've been told that from their end there are no time restrictions.
So one more question...
It happens that I know exactly what day this was, but I havent got previous letters where PE showing video evidence with date and time and the court papers only mention the day the PCN was issued, not when it ocurrend.
My question: Is there a risk they may take advantage of this and say the contravention happened on a different day? Should I first demand for the evidence and then contest it?
This shouldnt make the points above invalid, but nevertheless...0 -
Good. You were at all material times on site, charging an Eco vehicle next to a sign with no time limit and (presumably) no 'parking charge £100' warning either - or at least not terms that could bind a driver who was charging the car?At the time, I didnt worry or took notice of time as the signage didnt had any time limits.
Agreed 100% - nigelbb makes a good point here. This is about the fact you were charging an Eco vehicle, not parked. It is OK to explain why you didn't explain this sooner (because PE failed to bother to trace you and it was only luck that an old neighbour spotted the 'official looking' claim form letter).When you contact PE & the Motorway Service Area stick to the bare fact that you were charging your car. Don't go off piste & start talking about having a rest & not noticing the time.
No, I would not think this is a risk, PE are known for lots of things but not for altering dates on a PCN. The date of event will match your knowledge. Try the 'email tennis' repeated complaint this week, really get assertive that this needs withdrawing or you will claim full costs as they have 'no cause of action'.My question: Is there a risk they may take advantage of this and say the contravention happened on a different day? Should I first demand for the evidence and then contest it?
Do not offer to settle. Their whole modus operandi on site FAILS if they 'catch' people charging Eco vehicles as well as people parking.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
I popped into the place today on my way home and had a look at the signs. Surely you guys are more experienced that I am making conclusions about this.
On the middle there is one sign visible with a prohibition to park.
Within the boundaries of the charging area this sign can be seen:
The conditions don't mention in what circumstances the parking charge is payable, how and where to pay, simply that the area is for exclusive use of the charging points. My conclusion is the fine is applicable to vehicles not using them.
Outside the charging area, the standard signs apply, with the usual time restrictions0 -
Yes that is a complete mess. Bottom line is - can you prove from charging records that the time spent there (or most of it) was charging the vehicle and any other time did not exceed 2 hours?
Because the link mentioned before shows you that it is mandatory that 2 hours PARKING is offered free, so that must be on top of any charging time.
The 2 hours is statutory for drivers to rest and use the facility, eat, drink, use the rest room, doze, etc. You must be persistent and insist that PE has no cause of action so get emailing your evidence of charging and telling them you received nothing until court papers.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »Yes that is a complete mess. Bottom line is - can you prove from charging records that the time spent there (or most of it) was charging the vehicle and any other time did not exceed 2 hours?
Because the link mentioned before shows you that it is mandatory that 2 hours PARKING is offered free, so that must be on top of any charging time.
The 2 hours is statutory for drivers to rest and use the facility, eat, drink, use the rest room, doze, etc. You must be persistent and insist that PE has no cause of action so get emailing your evidence of charging and telling them you received nothing until court papers.
This might be a problem in all honesty. I can ring ecotricity tomorrow and check...
I'm going to create a post on the EV forum to see if someone done this before
I contacted the services just now, as for PE can only find a form on their website asking for parking charge reference and other details which I dont have. Any direct e-mail to contact these people?0 -
It should be sufficient to simply demonstrate that you have an electric car & that it takes up to four hours to charge it fully. PE Have no way of knowing that you have an electric car that was being charged as all they have is a record of when the car entered & exited the Motorway Service Area.0
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It seems like Ecotricity know more about motorway parking rules than the signs tell you:
What happens if my battery is very flat and I need to stay longer than the two hours ‘allowed’ to charge up?
At all motorway service areas car parking charges will apply as normal after the allocated free period. If you have any questions about how to pay for parking, please contact the motorway service area where you will be charging. If you need to stay longer please ask to speak to the site duty manager.
https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-the-road/faqs/general-faqscts_casemod wrote: »I called Ecotricity Yesterday and I've been told that from their end there are no time restrictions
Seems like the person you spoke to at Ecotricity mislead you too!0
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