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Smoking Fine
Comments
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Hi, Mrbadexample,mrbadexample wrote: »Well, if he wasn't cautioned, then surely any "interview" would only count as hearsay evidence?
And if he was cautioned, should he have been? If he was not in a position to be able to properly understand the caution or his rights, or indeed the questioning, should not the interview have taken place at a later date?
Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
As far as I'm aware, if you are suspected of having committed an offence, and someone wants to ask you questions about the alleged offence, you must be cautioned and advised of your rights. I think this is the case whether you are to be prosecuted or issued with a fixed penalty?
The offer of an out of court settlement concerns me too. If it went to court the defendant gets full disclosure of the prosecution's evidence, doesn't he? So does he get the same disclosure before deciding to accept the out of court settlement?
It seems to me that they could have no evidence, or they could have made any amount of procedural errors in reporting the offence, but all they have to do is offer the out of court settlement and hope the accused coughs up? If he declines the settlement, and they've c0cked up somewhere, it wouldn't even get to court.
I'd be inclined to write and say I vaguely remember something happening, but I was drunk so can't be sure, and request the evidence, pocket book notes, record of interview etc.
Someone set me straight if that's not how it works... :whistle:
You don't have to caution somebody in order to report them for an offence, and I've not cautioned many people for this very reason. If cautioned, the evidence obviously holds more weight in court, because you're obviosly warning the individual of their rights. As long as you can obtain a name and address from the person concerned, that's all you need to submit a statement of fact.
The fact that the person was smoking I'd imagine, can me proved beyond reasonable doubt by CCTV if required. If the person was cautioned, and they admited they were smoking, and that smoking on a station platform was an offence, then no further evidence would be reuired. Also, as I think you've already said, an FPN or PND can't be issued to an offender who is intoxicated either.0 -
Reminds me of an amusing incident a couple of years ago. I won't name the locations incase of repercussions. Travelling from A to B on a single track line, the train stops at a station to let an oncoming train past. All the smokers (including me) get of for a smoke and are joined by the guard & driver.0
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Hi, Mrbadexample,
You don't have to caution somebody in order to report them for an offence, and I've not cautioned many people for this very reason.
I agree that you don't have to be cautioned for an offence to be reported, but that's not quite what I said. I said that if you are suspected of an offence, and someone wants to question you about that offence, then you must be cautioned.
My main point was asking if the OP can request the evidence before settling out of court?If you lend someone a tenner and never see them again, it was probably worth it.0 -
I agree that to be questioned you'd have to be cautioned first. To be honest, with an offence such as this one, even without a caution the TOC would probably get a result at court.mrbadexample wrote: »I agree that you don't have to be cautioned for an offence to be reported, but that's not quite what I said. I said that if you are suspected of an offence, and someone wants to question you about that offence, then you must be cautioned.
My main point was asking if the OP can request the evidence before settling out of court?
The evidence would only become available if the TOC decided to opt for prosecution, then the defendent would receive a copy of the statement of facts.0 -
Well, of course, smoking on an open platform is such a serious matter, isn't it.. Nanny State UK again.:mad:0
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I agree with Inactive re: the Nanny State UK. Now, if you had been fighting on the platform, I have no doubt that you would have ben ignored. However, as a harmless, tipsy person having a fag - what an ideal target!! However, it is probably a good idea to contact your CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau) for advice. Also, some council's have their own Advice Bureau, which you can 'phone. Good Luck!!0
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I'd be getting some proper legal advice pronto! You don't want to get a criminal record over something so trivial (and easily avoidable), but the details of the letter you've received sound a bit dodgy...
As Queries says, maybe it's worth trying a Citizens' Advice Bureau to see if you can find any obvious legal problems with the fine.0 -
Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »And stop smoking on stations. You are not allowed to smoke on any station including open platforms.
Really?
Why do the enclosed areas clearly have signs and the open areas do not?
Why have rail staff never told myself or anyone else at the same station not to smoke in the open area?0 -
Depends on the policy in place at the station.Really?
Why do the enclosed areas clearly have signs and the open areas do not?
Why have rail staff never told myself or anyone else at the same station not to smoke in the open area?
If it's a FGW station then it applies in open areas on ALL their stations:-
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=1099
But if it's a Scotrail station then it doesn't
http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/stations-az
It wasn't difficult to do a little research, but that seems lacking in some of the replies in this section of the forum!!0 -
Really?
Why do the enclosed areas clearly have signs and the open areas do not?
Why have rail staff never told myself or anyone else at the same station not to smoke in the open area?
When Network Rail brought the policy in it was also agreed with by every TOC in the whole of England.Can you smoke on train platforms?
No. The Association of Train Operator Companies (ATOC) and Network Rail has introduced a comprehensive smokefree policy throughout at all 1,900 railway stations in England as well as railway offices - station offices, canteens and workplace areas which are covered by the legislation. Because of this policy, smoking is prohibited on all station concourses, ticket halls, on platforms - covered and uncovered - and footbridges and subways at station premises. Retail and food outlets are also required to be smokefree. However, smoking will still be permitted on most station forecourts and in (uncovered) station car parks. No-smoking signs will indicate which areas are smokefree. If you are in doubt, ask a member of staff.one of the famous 5
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