Weezl's phase 1- recipe testing and frugalisation- come one, come all!

Sian_the_Green · 26 February 2010 at 12:57AM

Woohoo, All sounds AMAZING!
Good job Weezl, how did you get the chicken back in?

I am sorry if anything I have said has been discouraging to you. I am totally on board with the £100 plan, I think what I was meaning was that, whilst it would not be for everyone, with the wealth of other ideas we have bandied around, we could easily have bonus sections to the plan to accommodate the fussy. Not that the challenge as itself should change but that there would be a safety net to catch those who thought it was a step too far and began to wobble at the thought of battery eggs.

Good job everyone, so, we're out of the harbour, there is a strong wind in the sails and Weezl is at the helm, now where's my pina colada....?

weezl74 · 26 February 2010 at 5:50AM

Ministry of food: Daily report:

Well troops, after a fantastic victory yesterday I hope you are all well rested

How's your head Arty?

Hugs to all who need them (hope maltesers is ok).

So I came on and excitedly said 'we've done it!' and now you're all really pleased, thank you. And yet a lot of this has been going on in my head and on my PC and only little bits have been easy to make public. I've moved many a parameter in response to what people have said, but not really had the chance to spell that out, so here goes:

There are still (just!) 5 a day, there are also potatoes, which means we also meet the targets of lots of european nations and north america.

We meet the guidance for 1 portion of oily fish per person per week, but I cannot vouch for if we meet all of the exact RDA for Omega 3, and I don't think one exists yet, insufficient research.

The planner still needs work. I bought a lot of skimmed milk powder to meet calcium requirements, knowing I could fortify a lot of the recipes with it, but have not experimented at all with how to do that, other than one attempt at the onion tart. I'd like it to go in the bread, the carrot cake, cream of tomato soup, pancakes....

I have tweaked some of the recipes to meet the storecupboard challenge of the list and leave Shirley with as little waste as possible, and I haven't gone back and changed them all/collated them all.

There's another biggy. I've been realising it over the whole time we've been doing this, but trying to ignore it...

Mysupermarket checks the prices at 4 leading stores a couple of times a week. If you have a list saved with them, then when you log in, your whole shop value goes up and down according to how the pricing structure has changed. Each list I have put together has changed at least weekly since we've started.

A shopping list that is £100.31 when I've gone to bed has on a couple of occasions been £102.12 when I've woken up. Shirley's plan if it is to be exactly £100 becomes obsolete almost daily.

Some of the changes have been pretty big. Asda discontinuing a particular large bag of chickpeas meant that half our menu and recipes went out the window. This is fine while we're investing all this time in the testing, but would be utterly unsustainable in real life. Is shirley going to realise a major item is not available, read the entire thread to try to work out what essential nutrient it provided and in what quantity, google like mad to match it and then try to fit it into a meal planner exactly where the old ingredient used to be? And then batch cook it all, keep the kids/bob from nicking the food for snacks that's needed for food, bake bread 2-3 times a week.....

I suspect not. Poor lass

Can we write shirl a new planner daily? It would be a lifelong task.

This I suppose is where the real message of the thread comes in. Shirley average is fed for a day, she is still not fishing for life. We have become too essential if we're going to those lengths.

In wartime, a lot of these issues were taken out of our hands. A 'needs must' attitude prevailed. I asked my granny once how rationing affected those with food allergies, ie, were there special stamps/ extra coupons. 'Oh we didn't have any of that back then Darlin'!' any of what? 'food allergies pet!'.

Now obviously I'm not saying that as ageneration we've invented the food allergy, I've been hospitalised myself with anaphalaxis, and I firmly don't believe I could have created something so scary psychosomatically.

But research does show that in the developing world food allergy does not occur as it does here. It seems to be something that the human body ccan only 'afford to do' in times of plenty.

Similarly a Bob and Shirley in 1940 would not have felt abnormal for eating very little meat, dried egg powder, and having to dig for victory, to have carrots on the kids plates at teatime. No shame in the office for wartime Bob.

And yet now, we are less healthy as a nation.

We are poorer too, but we look richer. Another gem from my granny: 'I was comfy having my cup of tea at (new next door's house) until she said she wouldn't own the sofa for 3 more years. Then I sat all upright and sipped my cup all careful.' Do you see what I mean? Wartime bob and shirley owned everything in their home.

Bob and shirley, who have a £25000 credit card debt own less than nothing in their own home. If Bob loses his job and they fail to make payments the bailiffs can take everything in their home and it still won't touch the £25k.

I'm ranting now. I'll stop.

I just so wish that this time of crisis would be treated with similar gravitas than the second world war. Will it be?

Nope! Not even if a similar circumstance happened.

I do not believe that any UK government since the 1960's would introduce wartime rationing. I believe that Brown and Darling would borrow billions of pounds that we still can't afford, and arrange to have food flown here from other countries. And we'd never pay it back.

Can Brown and Darling take on the issue of Shirley's spiralling debt? How big is it? £25k. It's laughable! The chancellor of the exchequer goes to bed every night knowing that this country owes £858.5 BILLION it does not currently have, and plans on spending more.

How do you persuade a country to live within it's means as individuals?

Do you not have to at some level have a chancellor of the exchequer committed to having a country that can live within it's means? No-one taught the chancellor to fish either it would appear!

Need breakfast. Will probably delete this bit later, it's too ranty!

remmie · 26 February 2010 at 7:31AM

Good morning Weezl

Please dont delete it. Your post says everything I want to say, but am not as good at putting into words as you are. You speak a lot of sense lady!!

canidothis · 26 February 2010 at 8:19AM

I agree with Remmie dont delete your post Weezl. You are a gifted public speaker and eloquently put your point across and your posts explain very well the whole purpose of your project xx

FrankieM · 26 February 2010 at 8:43AM

I think the meal plans looks great and has meals on it that people would recognise, which is quite helpful.
I even think I could give doing it for a month a fair go, just a little unsure about how my family would take to the lunches but certainly worth a shot!

In regards to your 'rant' weezl I was listening to 'This Week' last night and someone on there was saying that this is the first recession we've had that hasn't involved rising inflation/interest rates so for those people that haven't lost their jobs, they are almost untouched by it.
I do agree with your view on the countries debt...how can you possibly encourage people to live within their means/cut their cloth etc when the govt is so obviously overspending.

ceridwen · 26 February 2010 at 9:28AM

weezl74 wrote: »

It would probably be ok now although his lungs might not yet have enough surfactant so he might need a little breathing help, but he would be very likely to be ok. If I were Kester I'd be about to be born tomorrow (I was a bit prem, and have been in a rush about everything ever since :D)

But ideally I'd like him to come on or after March 9th because then he can be born here at home like fergie was, and that is good because hospitals are manky :rotfl:

I was more prem than you were:) - dont know WHAT that makes me then....:cool:

"Hospitals...manky" - ooooh.....never....;) (..thinks...better shut-up quick - except that the state of them is another reason why I wouldnt have a child these days......).

Anyways - talking about matters medical - has someone handed you a wet flannel to hold to your forehead yet weezl?:rotfl:<hands over virtual flannel>:D

Sian_the_Green · 26 February 2010 at 9:34AM

Imagine if you could get Asda to support you and guarantee those products...

If it became a popular strategy and they could guarantee the publicity for themselves and that all people doing the plan were able to get to them! I know that that may be a little over-optimistic but worth considering that. A lot of supermarkets have offers now for 'feed your family for a fiver' and people are more likely to buy other things from there if it is a big shop e.g. loo rolls, birthday cards, stamps, phone credit... that would mean they still got more than the £100 from people over the month

You're doing a cracking job. I put milk in a lot of things, curry, bolognaise etc so adding milk powder wouldn't be a hardship at all

Have a great day all x

ceridwen · 26 February 2010 at 9:40AM

weezl74 wrote: »

Ministry of food: Daily report:

Well troops, after a fantastic victory yesterday I hope you are all well rested

How's your head Arty?

Hugs to all who need them (hope maltesers is ok).

So I came on and excitedly said 'we've done it!' and now you're all really pleased, thank you. And yet a lot of this has been going on in my head and on my PC and only little bits have been easy to make public. I've moved many a parameter in response to what people have said, but not really had the chance to spell that out, so here goes:

There are still (just!) 5 a day, there are also potatoes, which means we also meet the targets of lots of european nations and north america.

We meet the guidance for 1 portion of oily fish per person per week, but I cannot vouch for if we meet all of the exact RDA for Omega 3, and I don't think one exists yet, insufficient research.

The planner still needs work. I bought a lot of skimmed milk powder to meet calcium requirements, knowing I could fortify a lot of the recipes with it, but have not experimented at all with how to do that, other than one attempt at the onion tart. I'd like it to go in the bread, the carrot cake, cream of tomato soup, pancakes....

I have tweaked some of the recipes to meet the storecupboard challenge of the list and leave Shirley with as little waste as possible, and I haven't gone back and changed them all/collated them all.

There's another biggy. I've been realising it over the whole time we've been doing this, but trying to ignore it...

Mysupermarket checks the prices at 4 leading stores a couple of times a week. If you have a list saved with them, then when you log in, your whole shop value goes up and down according to how the pricing structure has changed. Each list I have put together has changed at least weekly since we've started.

A shopping list that is £100.31 when I've gone to bed has on a couple of occasions been £102.12 when I've woken up. Shirley's plan if it is to be exactly £100 becomes obsolete almost daily.

Some of the changes have been pretty big. Asda discontinuing a particular large bag of chickpeas meant that half our menu and recipes went out the window. This is fine while we're investing all this time in the testing, but would be utterly unsustainable in real life. Is shirley going to realise a major item is not available, read the entire thread to try to work out what essential nutrient it provided and in what quantity, google like mad to match it and then try to fit it into a meal planner exactly where the old ingredient used to be? And then batch cook it all, keep the kids/bob from nicking the food for snacks that's needed for food, bake bread 2-3 times a week.....

I suspect not. Poor lass

Can we write shirl a new planner daily? It would be a lifelong task.

This I suppose is where the real message of the thread comes in. Shirley average is fed for a day, she is still not fishing for life. We have become too essential if we're going to those lengths.

In wartime, a lot of these issues were taken out of our hands. A 'needs must' attitude prevailed. I asked my granny once how rationing affected those with food allergies, ie, were there special stamps/ extra coupons. 'Oh we didn't have any of that back then Darlin'!' any of what? 'food allergies pet!'.

Now obviously I'm not saying that as ageneration we've invented the food allergy, I've been hospitalised myself with anaphalaxis, and I firmly don't believe I could have created something so scary psychosomatically.

But research does show that in the developing world food allergy does not occur as it does here. It seems to be something that the human body ccan only 'afford to do' in times of plenty.

Similarly a Bob and Shirley in 1940 would not have felt abnormal for eating very little meat, dried egg powder, and having to dig for victory, to have carrots on the kids plates at teatime. No shame in the office for wartime Bob.

And yet now, we are less healthy as a nation.

We are poorer too, but we look richer. Another gem from my granny: 'I was comfy having my cup of tea at (new next door's house) until she said she wouldn't own the sofa for 3 more years. Then I sat all upright and sipped my cup all careful.' Do you see what I mean? Wartime bob and shirley owned everything in their home.

Bob and shirley, who have a £25000 credit card debt own less than nothing in their own home. If Bob loses his job and they fail to make payments the bailiffs can take everything in their home and it still won't touch the £25k.

I'm ranting now. I'll stop.

I just so wish that this time of crisis would be treated with similar gravitas than the second world war. Will it be?

Nope! Not even if a similar circumstance happened.

I do not believe that any UK government since the 1960's would introduce wartime rationing. I believe that Brown and Darling would borrow billions of pounds that we still can't afford, and arrange to have food flown here from other countries. And we'd never pay it back.

Can Brown and Darling take on the issue of Shirley's spiralling debt? How big is it? £25k. It's laughable! The chancellor of the exchequer goes to bed every night knowing that this country owes £858.5 BILLION it does not currently have, and plans on spending more.

How do you persuade a country to live within it's means as individuals?

Do you not have to at some level have a chancellor of the exchequer committed to having a country that can live within it's means? No-one taught the chancellor to fish either it would appear!

Need breakfast. Will probably delete this bit later, it's too ranty!

Not too ranty at all my lass. (errr...and I'll delete this quote later if you want me too:)).

The thing is though - there is one HUGE GINORMOUS MASSIVE difference between this country being in massive debt and Bob & Shirley being in large debt. Bob & Shirley possibly/probably made that choice - they probably got into that debt in the first place because of consumer spending (apologies at this point to those who are good money managers - and had unexpected necessities to spend on and an unexpected paycut at the same time = in which case it wouldnt be your choice/your fault).

Britain is living way above its means currently - yep..money handed to greedy bankers...I think we can all agree on that:) But Joe & Jane Bloggs in the street are often at fault too..having taken every benefit they can just BECAUSE they can (no - I'm not talking about unemployment benefit here...I mean the ones that are available to them because of lifestyle choices they themselves made = not something that got imposed on them like unemployment). "Personal responsibility" is key....oh...whoops...I'm starting to sound like Maggie Thatcher (blushes...:o) - but that particular political party arent the only ones that believe in personal responsibility. You know me well enough by now Weezl you can probably instantly think of where I am aware that LOTS of money is being wasted by the country - STILL.....(and thats another topic altogether - oil comes to mind here...and not of the cooking variety).

Okays...I better go and head for a flannel myself - "real world" one this time.

But..yep...still agreeing its a good idea to hand Shirley & Bob a "tool" to help them meet their personal responsibilities and get themselves out of their personal debt situation.:)

weezl74 · 26 February 2010 at 10:43AM

Lesley_Gaye wrote: »

It seems to me that maybe now is the time to restate the objectives of the project. If we don't know where we are going, we won't know when we get there. This feels very much like a mid-project wobble where some spec-creep has come in. Most projects get them, where the originator wants to make it all things to all people and it’s very easy to end up with a product that doesn’t satisfy anyone.

As the OP Weezl, it's your call. What is your objective for this project. It seems from your earlier post that you would like it to be a first step towards something that could be taken further. If we can clarify what the target is, we can focus better on how to achieve it.

I think you need to decide what is the most important thing to you - is it the £100 limit; getting families to believe they can do it and reduce their grocery spend drastically; having something you can lobby government with; all of the above; something else entirely

Exceeding the £100 seems to be a deal breaker for you - can you say why?

For what it's worth, I see this phase of an ambitious project being to produce a meal plan(s) that we feel an average family could realistically use for months on end whilst staying/getting healthy, spending the minimum amount of money and not being so strange/different to an average British family (whoever they may be) that they don’t even attempt to attempt it.

I would hate to see this thread finish as I very much admire the ethos of helping those who need it to get out of their economic difficulties and have always believed in giving a man a fishing rod and teaching him to fish.

Hi lesley, I've been mulling on your excellent project manager thoughts overnight.

I agree we need a restatement of the vision.

I think it has to be the teaching to fish and feeding for life part which totally wins, followed by preserving the health of the family. I know I differ from some posters in this, but for me the health benefits of being debt free will be huge (remember the 75-100 cigarettes daily!) and so there are some health benefits I struggle to introduce at the expense of the budget.

It must also be practical, or it will not be followed.

My current thinking is that there are some recipes which are always going to be relatively frugal they won't be based on a whimsical BOGOF which will be gone next month. They may fluctuate a little, but so will the prices of the more expensive goods, and ours will still be relatively cheaper.

So what I'm wondering is, is this then what we are offering to Shirley:

A meal plan for at least a month to ensure everything gets used up
The knowledge that it meets basic health targets plus has enough variety and interest to keep the family on board
A set of recipes to make that happen
A price comparison point at one moment in time (April 2010 for example) showing that at that point this could be done for £100.

weezl74 · 26 February 2010 at 10:46AM

Cream of tomato soup:

100g pluspints milk powder
3 cans SP tomatoes
salt pepper spices
Garlic

15p per portion, but a super source of calcium

Weezl's phase 1- recipe testing and frugalisation- come one, come all!

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