Sutton's default removal letters

Cahoot_hater wrote: »

Natwest (C/C) = Caliming £276 = 0ffered £86 inc interest - Going through MCOL for a complete refund.
:beer:

Cahoot_hater wrote: »

From memory I'm certain I paid the outstanding balance off in full on June 2005, after a little help from a member of the family, and yes Natwest have already paid out the penalty charges.

The first payment missed date was April 2004.

The ony information I have requested from natwest was a full list of all charges placed on my account, and a CCA which i sent on 24/7/09 and there responce letter is dated 6/8/09, which i received today 10/8/09.

below is a link to my credit report which equifax have:

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4125/equifax.jpg


I really appreciate your help m8, thank you.

:D

Request for a copy of the Original Credit Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment
under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Dear Natwest,

Re:

I write with reference to recent correspondence, and in particular your letter to me dated 6th August 2009, the content of which has been noted.

I'd like to start by quoting the main point of your response;

"Your request for documents contains some misconceptions about your entitlement to information in a specified form and our obligation to supply that information. As you are aware this account has been fully repaid, and therefore, there is no active agreement between Natwest Credit Cards and you with regards to the above account.

The Consumer credit Act is for active agreements and therefore there we are under no obligation to provide you with the requested documents as your obligation to us under the agreement has ended. I trust the above clarifies matters for you"

I can only assume by this, being you do not specify which area of the Act you refer to, that you are explicitly referring to The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (in conjunction with the CCA 1974, ss 58(1), 64(1), 180, 182(2) & 189(1)). Maybe you also refer to s.11 (Duty to supply copies of documents not to apply to certain kinds of documents) which would, as you say mean you do not have to provide me a copy of my agreement. You should be aware though; that this does not include provision where the account is in dispute, which to clarify, is the case and has been since back in 2005 whereby you initially defaulted me.

As a result of this, I hereby formally place this account into dispute whether retrospectively or otherwise and should be treated as being in dispute until further notice.

You should also consider this letter as a statutory notice under s.10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with the three (3) Credit Reference Agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

I must draw your attention back to your letter dated 6th August where you quote;

"As you are aware this account has been fully repaid, and therefore, there is no active agreement between Natwest Credit Cards and you with regards to the above account"

It is evident that this quote is in direct conflict with the clause of Act you are trying to hide behind, in that if we have no active agreement then you are not permitted to share my personal data? May I also remind you of the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th & 7th principles of the Data Protection Act 1998 which will show your evident breaches and which also confirm that the processing of my data is no longer allowed due to cessation of contract?

Going back to my request for the CCA, I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed and, obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement. At the present moment I am retaining my request under s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and formally request that you provide me with said document at your earliest convenience. Failure to comply will result in my sending in more formal papers.

I must stress the secondary request will not be pursuant to s.78 of the CCA but will be made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules (Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore an unsigned copy would not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form would suffice in such circumstances, which we both know you will not be able to fulfil.

I feel it pertinent to also highlight the fact that it is your legal requirement to issue Default Notices pursuant to s.87(1) & s.88 of the CCA(1974) which, for the avoidance of doubt, is quoted below for your perusal;

s.87 Need for default notice
(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default notice”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—

(a) to terminate the agreement, or

(b) to demand earlier payment of any sum

It is a clear fact that you did not adhere to this because no default notice was ever received by me. The fact that you never issued me with a Termination Notice, a Notice of Default nor the minimum period of 14 days in which to settle the account means that the actual default registered against me is unlawful and should be immediately removed.

I did, as matter of fact, pay the outstanding balance within a month of you adding a default and as such I do feel that this shows great commitment on my behalf which will only go to prove to a Judge that I have acted proper throughout. Natwest, on the other hand have not.

In light of the above, I would ask that you provide me with a copy of the Default Notice that confirms it was properly executed; I require the complete document with all its parts. The reason why I require this information is clearly as a result of the above, but for clarity, I require this document as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the Default Notice which may leave it improperly executed.

Since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings and given that your organisation is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, I must draw your attention to Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)(C)&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me. The disclosure of this document will allow me to consider any claim I may have against your organisation and will allow for the matter to be dealt with, possibly without the need for costly litigation.

I do not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request I will be left no option but to make an application to the County Court for an order made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the document which I have requested. Additionally I will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court should such an application become necessary.

Taking into account everything within this letter, your clear lack of Consumer Credit knowledge and the unlawful practice of issuing Default Notices, I feel it would be best for both parties if this matter is resolved amicably, without the need of litigation, for an amount of £460 that has already long since been paid.

I confirm I am more than happy to close all communication with the promise of no further action against you so long as you agree to, and ensure that, the following actions will be carried out;

• The Default Notice will be removed
• The Status of the account will change from “Defaulted” to “Settled”
• The Current Balance will appear as £0.00
• The Default / Delinquent Balance will be set to £0.00
• There will be no date in the “Defaulted Date” field (as it will be removed)
• There will be no date in the “Date Last Delinquent” field on the report
• This will apply to all 3 Credit Reference Agencies, namely Experian, Equifax & Call Credit

If you're happy with my proposal, please respond confirming each of the above points on official letter headed paper, and I will respond confirming closure by return, in which case I would not require the CCA, Default Notice or Termination Notice.
If you refuse then I do require the documents as noted above, for the reasons outlined within this letter and will take legal action against Natwest beginning with enforcement to provide a true copy of the alleged Consumer Credit Agreement, Termination Notice & Default Notice, which you have clearly proved that you do not have. If you do happen to provide one at a later date, in Court, this will strengthen my case against you because you will have committed an offence for non issuance within the prescribed timeframe thus resulting in the alleged debt becoming unenforceable with a full refund plus costs likely to be awarded to me.

I do hope we can resolve matters amicably and look forward to your response within 21 days from receipt of this letter.

Yours faithfully,


Cahoot-Hater
(sign digitally - don’t give your real signature to them!)

Cahoot_hater wrote: »

NI'd just read the letter, itis great I'll post this off tomorrow first thing recorded. Thank you for your time and effort in preapring this letter not only for me but others too. You are a pro m8 and a real assest to the forum. I will keep updated with there responce. Thank you speak
To u soon.

Cheers

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Hiya,

I've had a read through your original post and you're spot-on for not paying anything. Few things we need to establish and then i'll post you a letter for each lender that will kick them into gear. Just remember, you cannot speak to any of them on the phone again and you must stick to the script laid out on here for you! Deviate and it'll put you back 10 steps....

Right, going from your post - my comments are in red next to your original point.

.......................................................

I'm in desperate need of some help with 2 defaults I have. I got into some problems a few years ago, 2 redundancies, a very draining ex!! and took some really bad advice so is basically all my fault and I can accept that.

Don't worry ;-)

I had some debts with Next and Littlewoods and asked both if I could reduce payments but they said no, asked both for copies of credit card agreements, neither of which could supply,

Can you confirm the following;

1. Next - was this a newxt catalogue account and did you ever get the next storecard?

Yes this was a catalogue account and I believe I did have the card that related to the same account.

2. Littlewoods - was this an LX Direct or Littlewoods account and did you ever get the LX storecard?
This was a Littlewoods Direct account, no store card.

3. What did you send, when you asked for agreements, was it the CCA letter? Did they respond in writing, if so what did they say or did they just ignore you?
I sent CCA request to Next on 13 June 2007, they replied on 26 June 07, response was “I regret to advise you that we do not hold copies of this documentation on our files and unfortunately can’t comply with this” and then go on to say “I can advise you…….. your debt to Next Directory is not enforceable in a court of law. However, that does not mean that the debt does not legally exist and Next still has the right to seek repayment, using the assistance of debt recovery agents where appropriate. The goods that were charged to your account have been ordered by and delivered to you, without payment in full having been made for them. By placing orders, and accepting delivery of them, a customer is deemed to have accepted our terms and conditions. These are printed in the Next Directory, and are also available on our website. Next has a duty…. (to pass info on to CRA’s)….
Although there is no known requirement to provide you with a copy of a default notice, or a deed of assignment, I have enclosed a copy of the default notice that would have been applicable in your case…..”

They also sent me a copy of a random agreement where they’d written in my name and address.

I then sent them the default letter and it’s been going backwards and forwards ever since!


the bad advice was to stop paying as there were no CCA's

This is good and correct advice. Without a CCA then the debt cannot be enforced thus you're throwing good money away.

so I did and was then defaulted on both accounts.

What do you mean 'defaulted on both accounts'? It cannot just happen, they should send you a temination notice (NOT) then a default notice (DN) with 14 days to pay. Afterwards, assuming they sell the debt to a DCA they must send an assignment notice (NOA).
No didn’t receive any default notice, they sent me a letter dated 21 Feb 07 saying I had to pay £332.72 by 11th Mar 07 or my account would be transferred to a Debt Recovery Company (or maybe this was the Default notice? In the copy they sent me it was the same letter but the dates were all different!). I phoned them and made a £50 payment. Lewis Debt Recovery then wrote to me dated 26th Mar 07 with a Final Demand saying I had to pay by 2nd Apr 07 or they would instruct a solicitor or send a debt collector to my house. I phoned them on 31st Mar 07 and they agreed to put account on hold for 7 days and I was to send in a copy of my outgoings. I did this and offered a reduced amount to pay monthly. They replied on 27th Apr 07 saying they didn’t accept my offer and said I had to pay a minimum of £100 every month. I don’t have a copy of how I responded then but did pay £100 on May 12th, they then wrote on 17th May 07 saying I could pay in instalments of £19.85 each month. I paid £19.85 on 13th June 07 and this was the last payment I made. On 7th March 08, Cabot wrote to say they had bought the debt from Next and I owed them £841.63, there was then various bits of correspondence with them.
When I queried this, Next sent a copy of a letter telling me they were preparing my debt for sale, however I didn’t receive this letter initially and the copy isn’t dated.


Have you moved house since the debt, if not, can you confirm no notices were ever received? Have you had it in writing they cannot supply them or verbally?
I’ve not moved house, the only notices I received were as above, unless these count, I guess because they don’t actually say “notice of default” on them… I’ve asked for copies but they’ve just sent a copy of what would have been appropriate at the time (as stated in first bit)

My issues are (certainly with Next) that at the time of default I a) didn't receive a default notice

Ok, fair point. This is the crux of the argument, along with the next part.....

and b) was disputing my account for non delivery of goods at the time of default.

If an account is in dispute they are acting unlawfully adding a default, this simply cannot be done and they will soon be told this (watch this space lol). My letter will make it abundantly clear where they have breached the CCA so don't worry too much about this or the lack of default notice for the time being.
I have copies of emails I sent them, starting in December 06 saying I had written to them disputing items on my account that they had neither responded to or given me a refund for. On 6th Jan they replied asking me to phone their courier dept which I did – no joy. I emailed again on 18th Mar 07 asking for it to be investigated. I then emailed again on 5th April asking the exact same thing!!! On 18th May they finally replied saying that £1147 was credited to my account (the amount was actually £11.47). During this time I had also told them that I had not received any statements for months so was unable to pay if I didn’t know what I was paying for as I thought there were other items I hadn’t received. They kept saying they had sent me copies of statements which again never arrived. At one point they said they could prove I’d taken receipt of all items charged for so I asked them to prove it with proof of delivery as I was more than happy to pay for what I’d received and they said “er actually we can’t prove it”

I have written numerous letters to them, they have admitted not having a CCA and also that they cannot prove which items I've received,

You're saying they have written confirming that they have no CCA? Please be 100% accurate with this answer.
Along with their initial response, letter from Cabot dated 02 Dec 08 states “Next Retail has confirmed that they are unable to provide us with the copy documentation that you have requested”
Cabot have also said “Next Retail have confirmed that their legal dept have dealt with your dispute and supplied you with a copy of the default notice, copy statements and a copy of the application form under the Consumer Credit Act. Please note that a copy of a credit agreement supplied under the CCA can be an unsigned copy.


at one point they offered a reduced amount for me to pay and would remove the default (how I wish I'd accepted this now)

Who did, Next? You done right to decline - see above point about wasted money.
Next did and so did Cabot

but I still disputed the amount, I offered a much lower amount, they refused.

Well done for disputing it, they are allowed to refuse - no big deal. I hope all these negotiations were done in writing - if you say it was verbal forget it, no proof. That is why my point at the very top if imperitive - no phone contact!
Is all in writing

I wrote to the FOS who have spent months and months investigating, just this week I have received a response from them saying that Next cannot provide them with a CCA either but that because the default was before April 2007 (was in March 07) they cannot even look at it!!

That's about right, pre 04/07 and unenforceability issues are not for the FOS to deal with. Don't worry too much about this, forget the FOS - that was duff advice wasting time going to them in the first place - never go to the FOS, they are a waste of space!

What on earth can I do now?

Ask N-i-D for some help lol :rotfl:

I feel like I'm going round in circles.

You are - it is normal and they do it in the hope you'll give up. From now on we'll stick to structured responses and writing. They will soon act properly, wait and see. It may take some threats but they should listen - eventually.

Can I check, do you have a balance on both accounts and could you pay it off, sometimes if we offer a full and final they may accept - but i'd get the default wiped completely as part of the deal.

Please confirm this.
I do have a balance on both accounts that I couldn’t necessarily pay off right now, however I’ve already offered a full and final providing they wipe the default and they just keep coming back with yes we accept it but default will only be marked as satisfied, not taken off as they maintain the only people who can take this off are Next. And how can I have 2 exact replicas of the default entry? Surely this isn’t fair??



I've acknowledged that I do owe them some money (albeit not the full amount) and I'm happy to pay this but I desperately want the default removed as it's causing me huge problems.

Ive asked about this in above point

I've tried all the usual letters for removal of defaults, none have worked. Do defaults only 'disappear' 6 years after you've paid the balance or do they write off the amount after this time.

They disappear after 6 years and also become statute barred after 6yrs of non payment. Don't worry, we'll sort this soon enough for you. Nothing ever gets written off, there is a huge difference between being unenforceable and written off.

Unenforceable means you owe the money, but it cannot be enforced, i.e. you don't have to pay - legally. Write-Off happens after 6yrs (Statute Barred) where it cannot ever be repaid and is ignored.

I'm guessing the next stage is court but I really don't know what to do.
Please can someone help
Thanks

Nope, court is the last option and threats will work. Post back some info and a copy of entries in your credit file with some dates of correspondence etc and i'll sort you the letter to send.
Call credit default entry 20 Mar 07, one under Next and one under Cabot, same dates.
Equifax – entry not showing currently after disputed (may come back though I guess!)
Experian default entry 20 Mar 07 under Cabot.


The more info you give the better - I need to pretend to be you so need all the details but nothing personal such as name/account details etc....
I have copies of all sorts of other letters if you need anything else…..


When will you be online next, i'll do this one night this week so confirm a time and we'll get together. The sooner you give me the info the sooner the defaults will be gone lol

Cheers

N-i-D