To replace a 20 year old boiler, or not?

fuzileer · 23 February 2008 at 1:39PM

We have an Ideal Mexico CF80 floor standing (conventional?) boiler, which as far as I can see is about 20 years old. It is beginning to play up despite annual clean-ups, (cutting out) and serves a 6-person, 5 bed house with radiator c. heating and hot water. Our gas spend is, at current rates, about £750-£800 per year.

The question is, how much more efficient should a new replacement boiler be, like for like, and how much of our gas bill could we expect to save? Some of our radiator thermostats aren't working well either, (not cutting off), so we'd have them done at the same time too.

I'm working on the assumption of £2,000-2,500 to get the boiler supplied and fitted, and would hope to get this paid back by the savings within 10 years!

I can't find out much about this boiler's efficiency, but the SEDBUK site produces the following data which I can't make sense of!!!!

000283,000008,Caradon Ideal,Caradon Ideal,Mexico Super,cf80,4140744,,1988,1,0,0,1,1,1,1,23.45,23.45,,,65,3,,0,2,0,,,0,,0,0,,,,,,,,1999/May/31 00:00

Many thanks - Neil

Canucklehead · 23 February 2008 at 7:53PM

Good evening: Your boiler has been rated at 65% efficiency (when new)...new condensing boilers average over 90% efficiency. If you revisit the Sedbuk site it can estimate fuel savings.

HTH

Canucklehead

Cardew · 24 February 2008 at 11:20PM

I have the same type of 20 year old Mexico boiler - albeit bigger - and as stated above it has an efficiency when new of 65%.

A new boiler will about 25% more efficient. However you might find to replace it will cost a bit more than you estimate - if you need to get it to comply with all the new regulations on flue, ventilation etc, plus a pwerflush.

The other point is that several 'experts' have stated that the new boilers which are stuffed full of electronics will be lucky to last 10 years.

If you factor in the loss of interest on the £3k or so and the finite life of newer boilers, it may not be an economic proposition to replace the boiler.

I have decided to 'soldier on' with my old boiler - but that may turn out to be the wrong decision!!!

moonrakerz · 25 February 2008 at 9:45AM

I have just moved from a house with a 21 year old (oil fired) boiler. Every couple of years I asked my service man if I should replace it - every couple of years I got the same answer - No !
His reasoning was not only the cost of a new boiler, but the much higher routine maintenance costs of the new machines - some say two services a year.
Had it serviced just before I moved; a clean out, new burner nozzles - £76, not bad every 2 years.

And, as Cardew says the new ones are so complex, they don't seem to last (built-in obsolescence ?)

ctdctd · 25 February 2008 at 9:54AM

moonrakerz wrote: »

And, as Cardew says the new ones are so complex, they don't seem to last (built-in obsolescence ?)

I replaced a 25 year old Baxi Bermuda back boiler with a Condensing Combi 4.5 years ago. Saving about 35% on gas bills so about £220 per year for me.
BUT the new boiler cost £1200 to supply and fit (£500 Cheapy Ravenheat) and the heat exchanger is already leaking and it only lights when it feels like it. Not economic to repair (Heat exchanger £250 + fitting + diagnosing other problem + VAT) so looks like a new boiler again.:mad:

I only replaced the Baxi as it rusted away.
Not sure if I'll go for another Ravenheat with 3 yr warrany at £1K fitted (No pipes to move this time) or spend double for a decent brand - will a better make last at least twice as long?

And does a new boiler every 5 years really help Global warming?:eek:

Canucklehead · 25 February 2008 at 10:33AM

Good morning: A boiler is only as good as the installation and annual servicing. My OH has attended too many boiler breakdowns over the years where the 'installer' has not followed manufacturer's instructions or specifications and the appliance has not had annual servicing: the annual service often catches the small problems before they develop into something expensive (or deadly as the case may be). Please note: many manufacturers do offer long warranty periods but the validity is contingent upon installation according manufacturer's specs and annual servicing. Check the installation guide for any new boiler you are considering for further details (available for download on the manufacturer's website) and ensure your 'installer' follows requirements.

HTH

Canucklehead

fuzileer · 25 February 2008 at 11:49PM

Dear All

Sounds like good advice from everyone - I was quite concerned about getting tied into expensive annual servicing etc for the new boiler, which apparently could wipe out my £200 p.a. gas savings. I might just content myself with getting my radiator thermos valves sorted instead, and a 7 day timer control system that allows us to cut back during the days when everyone's out. At the momenht we heat too often when we're out!

Cheers again

Neil

colinebannon · 17 March 2008 at 3:40PM

I have a Baxi Bermuda back boiler (over 20 years old). I had the BG Homecare agreement for the last year. Cancelled it this month. I had trouble with them but I think I got my money's worth with parts and labour;) . More seriously I have had 2 CO detections over the last year. My work colleague (an old gas engineer) has recommended that I replace the old boiler, but if it's not broke.....and the detector keeps us safe, I guess :eek:
Reading the threads I guess the recommendation is the Alpha system. Would this involve me having to remove the whole system? I am keen to remove the immersion heater and all the pipe work in the attic so that I can create more space and maybe convert the attic one day. Is this a good strategy? Or should I leave the pipe work in? Money is a little tight right now and I could do with just doing the basics. My colleague does not recommend that I buy a £399 boiler in B&Q as "it is like buying a yugo"

Now that I have read this thread i'm wondering if I should replace it at all?

krishing · 17 March 2008 at 5:26PM

hi fuzileer
i cant offer advice but can share my experience. i'm in a similar situation. i have a baxi back boiler. there are some problems. i am considering a new boiler. just had a chat with a corgi installer - total cost about £3200 incl vat. this includes £989 plus vat for a valliant boiler which apparently is quite good. the chap casually mentioned that the life expectancy indicated by the manufacturer is (only) 7 years. i can hardly believe it, but the message was clear. it makes me inclined to hold on as long as possible.
regards
krishing

zzzLazyDaisy · 17 March 2008 at 5:45PM

If you need a new boiler do remember to check out Warm Front, it is amazing how many people qualify for a £2700 grant towards the cost. Don't just assume that you won't qualify.

Cardew · 17 March 2008 at 6:46PM

krishing wrote: »

hi fuzileer
i cant offer advice but can share my experience. i'm in a similar situation. i have a baxi back boiler. there are some problems. i am considering a new boiler. just had a chat with a corgi installer - total cost about £3200 incl vat. this includes £989 plus vat for a valliant boiler which apparently is quite good. the chap casually mentioned that the life expectancy indicated by the manufacturer is (only) 7 years. i can hardly believe it, but the message was clear. it makes me inclined to hold on as long as possible.
regards
krishing

That point on life expectancy should be stressed time and time again. I mentioned this above viz:

The other point is that several 'experts' have stated that the new boilers which are stuffed full of electronics will be lucky to last 10 years.

If these dire predictions do turn out to be true, then it will negate any savings in getting a new boiler.

If you 'invest' money in a new boiler, you lose interest on that money(or pay interest to borrow it). Then if you have to pay for another boiler( + labour for fitting) after 7-10 years, you will need to save a hell of a lot in running costs just to break even.

To replace a 20 year old boiler, or not?

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