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  • FIRST POST
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 14th Jan 20, 7:23 PM
    • 10,964Posts
    • 9,862Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    The FIRE revolution
    • #1
    • 14th Jan 20, 7:23 PM
    The FIRE revolution 14th Jan 20 at 7:23 PM
    Saw this one doing the rounds on FB. Looks like you sign up to a course to learn to trade binary options or similar and get Rich

    https://fire-revolution.co.uk/
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
Page 1
    • TBC15
    • By TBC15 14th Jan 20, 7:30 PM
    • 871 Posts
    • 511 Thanks
    TBC15
    • #2
    • 14th Jan 20, 7:30 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Jan 20, 7:30 PM
    The poor !!!!!! can’t afford a razor, is this a charity?
    • CanadianDream
    • By CanadianDream 14th Jan 20, 7:35 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 39 Thanks
    CanadianDream
    • #3
    • 14th Jan 20, 7:35 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Jan 20, 7:35 PM
    Personally I don't trust these sort of websites, you're making them rich not you.


    FIRE is about retiring early and there are plenty of free resources on how to do it.
    • Snow Dog
    • By Snow Dog 14th Jan 20, 8:51 PM
    • 654 Posts
    • 344 Thanks
    Snow Dog
    • #4
    • 14th Jan 20, 8:51 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Jan 20, 8:51 PM
    Shouldnt be doing the rounds on faceache as they technically have banned binary options adverts - though if this is advertising a course in how to gamble in a rigged game then that may be their get out clause.
    • iglad
    • By iglad 15th Jan 20, 12:20 AM
    • 208 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    iglad
    • #5
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:20 AM
    • #5
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:20 AM
    This is just there to sell you a package of his nonsense and rip you off as it won't make you financially independent or be able to retire early.

    File under scam
    • MaxiRobriguez
    • By MaxiRobriguez 15th Jan 20, 11:29 AM
    • 794 Posts
    • 655 Thanks
    MaxiRobriguez
    • #6
    • 15th Jan 20, 11:29 AM
    • #6
    • 15th Jan 20, 11:29 AM
    The people who get caught up in this will soon know FIRE as: Financially Irresponsible, Retrospection Essential.
    • droopsnoot
    • By droopsnoot 15th Jan 20, 12:19 PM
    • 1,310 Posts
    • 841 Thanks
    droopsnoot
    • #7
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:19 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Jan 20, 12:19 PM
    I signed up for his mailing list based on it being FIRE-releated (even though it's a bit late for the "E" part for me) but it's not really. I still get emails trying to flog me stuff, but I can't say I've read any since the first couple.
    • Sir_Robin
    • By Sir_Robin 15th Jan 20, 1:16 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    Sir_Robin
    • #8
    • 15th Jan 20, 1:16 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Jan 20, 1:16 PM
    The FIRE communities I’ve seen are extremely frugal and advocates for diversified passive investing.
    Paying for a dodgey course on trading is pretty much the last thing they’d do.
    • lalman
    • By lalman 15th Jan 20, 1:56 PM
    • 274 Posts
    • 679 Thanks
    lalman
    • #9
    • 15th Jan 20, 1:56 PM
    • #9
    • 15th Jan 20, 1:56 PM
    I am currently 33, and think Mr Money Moustache is good for FIRE movement.

    I have 4 BTL's now and a full time job, and worked out i need 8 before i achieve FIRE.

    I have found it a lot harder in the UK to achieve FIRE than our American counterparts... it just feels they have more disposable income/ cheaper housing to achieve it quicker.
    My Goal: From 1st of Jan 2015 to 31st of December 2015 is to save 30000.

    48.78% towards 2015 target.

    105.3% towards 2014 target.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 15th Jan 20, 4:19 PM
    • 3,592 Posts
    • 2,882 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    The FIRE communities I’ve seen are extremely frugal and advocates for diversified passive investing.
    Paying for a dodgey course on trading is pretty much the last thing they’d do.
    Originally posted by Sir_Robin
    I couldn’t agree more. That website is the antithesis of the conventional FIRE movement. The site asks if you are happy with the income your investments generate, and I can honestly answer “yes”, because I have followed the FIRE principles of frugality and investing in low cost funds for the past 30 years. FIRE takes discipline and time, but it can work and I retired when I was 52 with no debt and complete financial independence.....even from the stock market.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • iglad
    • By iglad 15th Jan 20, 4:59 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    iglad
    The people who get caught up in this will soon know FIRE as: Financially Irresponsible, Retrospection Essential.
    Originally posted by MaxiRobriguez
    Financially Illiterate Regrettably Expensive
    • MaxiRobriguez
    • By MaxiRobriguez 15th Jan 20, 5:33 PM
    • 794 Posts
    • 655 Thanks
    MaxiRobriguez
    I am currently 33, and think Mr Money Moustache is good for FIRE movement.

    I have 4 BTL's now and a full time job, and worked out i need 8 before i achieve FIRE.

    I have found it a lot harder in the UK to achieve FIRE than our American counterparts... it just feels they have more disposable income/ cheaper housing to achieve it quicker.
    Originally posted by lalman
    Cheaper living and a concept that has taken off this decade when the American stock market has outperformed all its peers.

    I wonder how many of these people that have retired early are really set up to overcome a prolonged bear market or the usurping of the greenback though. Seems far too convenient to declare oneself independent at 25x expenditure at 4% drawdown rate, even for our US cousins. A big change in interest rate environment is going to give a lot of these people some very difficult problems to overcome which will dictate the quality of their life for the next half century.

    I think 35x and 2.5% with an additional 2.5% as a constant cash buffer is a better estimate of those thinking of retiring early under FIRE principles.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 15th Jan 20, 6:25 PM
    • 3,592 Posts
    • 2,882 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    Cheaper living and a concept that has taken off this decade when the American stock market has outperformed all its peers.

    I wonder how many of these people that have retired early are really set up to overcome a prolonged bear market or the usurping of the greenback though. Seems far too convenient to declare oneself independent at 25x expenditure at 4% drawdown rate, even for our US cousins. A big change in interest rate environment is going to give a lot of these people some very difficult problems to overcome which will dictate the quality of their life for the next half century.

    I think 35x and 2.5% with an additional 2.5% as a constant cash buffer is a better estimate of those thinking of retiring early under FIRE principles.
    Originally posted by MaxiRobriguez
    There is obviously a spectrum of independence...that sounds strange I know. There are some people who are independent with optimistic projections and those that no longer rely on stock market returns because they have such a large pot wrt their expenditure that they can manage with very conservative cash like investments or have pensions or alternative income sources like rent.

    The danger is that over the last 30 years stock returns have been very good and a 4% withdrawal seems conservative to many people; it might well be, but there's always a chance of a stock market disaster, so to be really independent you need other strings to your financial bow.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • C_Mababejive
    • By C_Mababejive 15th Jan 20, 6:47 PM
    • 10,964 Posts
    • 9,862 Thanks
    C_Mababejive
    Maybe a strategy is to have two taps. One on the pension barrel and one on the ISA barrel. If the pension investments drop due to a rising bear then turn that tap off and turn the ISA tap on to weather the storm? or is that rubbish?
    Feudal Britain needs land reform. 70% of the land is "owned" by 1 % of the population and at least 50% is unregistered (inherited by landed gentry). Thats why your slave box costs so much..
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 15th Jan 20, 7:55 PM
    • 3,592 Posts
    • 2,882 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    Maybe a strategy is to have two taps. One on the pension barrel and one on the ISA barrel. If the pension investments drop due to a rising bear then turn that tap off and turn the ISA tap on to weather the storm? or is that rubbish?
    Originally posted by C_Mababejive
    ....and how do you plan to have the pension and ISA invested? or by pension do you mean DB pension/annuity?
    Last edited by bostonerimus; 16-01-2020 at 1:40 AM.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • darkidoe
    • By darkidoe 17th Jan 20, 1:09 AM
    • 1,039 Posts
    • 1,268 Thanks
    darkidoe
    I retired when I was 52 with no debt and complete financial independence.....even from the stock market.
    Originally posted by bostonerimus
    Financial independence even from the stock market? How?

    You own a business? Have other sources of income?

    Save 12K in 2019 # 5 £0/£20,000
    Save 12K in 2018 # 31 £20,141.05/ £15,000 (134%) Achieved!
    Save 12K in 2017 # 9 £15,848.84/ £15,000 (105.65%) Achieved!
    Save 12K in 2016 # 8 £19,721.58/ £12,000 (164.35%) Achieved!
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 17th Jan 20, 9:48 AM
    • 7,386 Posts
    • 11,860 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Financial independence even from the stock market? How?

    You own a business? Have other sources of income?
    Originally posted by darkidoe
    Bostonmouse has the US equivalent of DB pensions if I remember correctly. And I assume there's an insurance scheme in place analogous to the UK's PPF.
    Maybe a strategy is to have two taps. One on the pension barrel and one on the ISA barrel. If the pension investments drop due to a rising bear then turn that tap off and turn the ISA tap on to weather the storm? or is that rubbish?
    Originally posted by C_Mababejive
    Not necessarily, it might be a good strategy not described very well . If your pensions and ISAs are invested in the same thing then it makes no sense. If your ISA is a cash ISA then it does make sense. It's drawdown strategy 101, spend your investments in a bull market, and stop withdrawals and spend cash in a bear market, thus avoiding pound cost ravaging (at the cost of lower overall growth on your portfolio due to cash drag).

    However if that is the case, your barrels should be labelled "investments" and "cash" not "pensions" and "ISAs" because that's what makes them work.

    Your strategy is a bit like saying "I'm going to have a wooden barrel and a steel barrel at my party and if I get too drunk on the wooden barrel I'll turn on the steel barrel tap instead". It makes sense only if we know that the wooden one contains beer and the steel one water.

    The FIRE communities I’ve seen are extremely frugal and advocates for diversified passive investing.
    Paying for a dodgey course on trading is pretty much the last thing they’d do.
    Originally posted by Sir_Robin
    True, but the FIRE rhetoric is not that far removed from the "generate a passive income, stop working for the Man, achieve financial independence" rhetoric of the get-rich-quick industry. It was only a matter of time before they tried to piggy-back on FIRE. The only difference is in how they achieve their shared aim of financial independence. (FIRE = slash lifestyle expectations, get-rich-quick = throw all your efforts and your money into pyramid schemes.)
    • gm0
    • By gm0 17th Jan 20, 11:48 AM
    • 68 Posts
    • 68 Thanks
    gm0
    Cash ISA as buffer for pension
    ISA or other cash buffers inside or outside the pension fund have a buffering affect on what happens to you when the correction hits.

    Relative to the 100% equities person (the extreme case ignoring leveraged plays) you are:

    - Not immediately selling equities for income into a 50% correction
    - Able to trim income, live of the cash and avoid the fire sale for 2-3 years (say)
    - Leaving some money on the table in the good times (lost returns and inflation impact on the cash held)

    Back testing seems to suggest this is "helpful" but not a pancea as not all dips recover conveniently quickly so it is not going to "fix" wealth preservation but it can knock out some of the "failed" retirements if you are pushing your withdrawl rate close to the limit where failures start to appear.

    So it is a good idea but don't fall into the trap of believing that 2 years income in a cash pot is going to fix sequence of return for you in a single step.
    • ChopperST
    • By ChopperST 17th Jan 20, 2:44 PM
    • 1,198 Posts
    • 800 Thanks
    ChopperST
    https://simplelivingsomerset.wordpress.com/2019/07/24/fire-is-for-the-few-not-the-many/

    Here's a good article balancing the delirium of FIRE. I follow many blogs like MME, FIREstarter etc. but the FIRE community does ignore alot of the benefits of work (social purpose, feeling of self worth etc.).

    I am fortunate to enjoy my job and the people I work with. FIRE is the opposite pole of "I wont save into a pension because I'll work till I drop." FIRE also ignores opportunity cost of not doing things when you are fit and healthy particularly travel, seeing the world etc.

    You may be able to guarantee your future income but there are no guarantees in life with respect of your health so a sense of perspective is warranted.

    Personally as a clinician in the NHS and a retirement age of 68 a SIPP to fill the gap 10 years before feels the right balance of a shift from full time to part time work if I choose and to allow me to pursue other work interests such as training the next generation and taking time out to teach.
    • veryintrigued
    • By veryintrigued 17th Jan 20, 2:51 PM
    • 2,860 Posts
    • 2,418 Thanks
    veryintrigued
    Anyone else thinking they're Fire resistant?
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