The FIRE revolution

MaxiRobriguez

Retireby40 said:

The idea is ok if your single, have no ambition to have a family etc etc.

But to live of 30-40% of your salary is impossible for most.

Surely this depends on your salary?

We have our first child on the way but I won't be changing our investment % which is currently 52% of salary. OK, not quite the 60-70% quoted above but that's only because my salary isn't as high as some others.

Alexland

HarryGray said:

I don't think the FIRE revolution is a scam? Its a large movement in America?

There is a difference between general FIRE and the "FIRE Revolution" which is a website run by Third Friday Ltd pushing a particular market trading strategy and seems to be piggy backing the otherwise good name of what many of us are trying to achieve from regular investment into sensible funds.

I guess they are hoping people will confuse the two matters - and it seems to be working.

Retireby40

MaxiRobriguez said:

Retireby40 said:

The idea is ok if your single, have no ambition to have a family etc etc.

But to live of 30-40% of your salary is impossible for most.

Surely this depends on your salary?

We have our first child on the way but I won't be changing our investment % which is currently 52% of salary. OK, not quite the 60-70% quoted above but that's only because my salary isn't as high as some others.

And when/if you have a second child. 2 mouths to feed, 2 kids wanting ps5 and iphones. Holidays more expensive. Maybe a bigger house needed and car. Soon adds up.

MaxiRobriguez

Retireby40 said:

MaxiRobriguez said:

Retireby40 said:

The idea is ok if your single, have no ambition to have a family etc etc.

But to live of 30-40% of your salary is impossible for most.

Surely this depends on your salary?

We have our first child on the way but I won't be changing our investment % which is currently 52% of salary. OK, not quite the 60-70% quoted above but that's only because my salary isn't as high as some others.

And when/if you have a second child. 2 mouths to feed, 2 kids wanting ps5 and iphones. Holidays more expensive. Maybe a bigger house needed and car. Soon adds up.

Bigger house is already accounted for - pre-planned move in a couple of years, our car needs replacing soon too as our little Yaris has 6 figures on the mileage clock so that was an expense to be accounted for too,and kids don't need latest PS5's and iPhones.

I have pencilled in taking 5% of salary from investment back to income for additional spending, predominantly to cover loss of wife's earnings as she plans to stay off on maternity for full year, so 3 months unpaid. We'll probably keep that allocation when she returns, but that would still be 47% of my salary going to investments.

So I think it harks back to original point - ability depends on salary more than family situation. Together wife and I earn six figures.

BananaRepublic

Retireby40 said:

BananaRepublic said:

Retireby40 said:

BananaRepublic said:

My late father retired at 50, that was back in the days when companies and their pension schemes allowed early retirement. Plenty of people here have retired in their fifties. It is doable but you need to be a decent earner, and invest wisely. I don’t think you could do it on a teacher’s salary unless you had a rich mummy and daddy to help you onto the housing ladder early. 

I wouldn't consider retiring in your 50s as particularly early especially if you've been working maybe since 18-20. 50 on the button is probably perfect timing. Young enough to enjoy old enough to have money. To retire at 55-60 is good but a lot of people could retire close to that providing they've been half smart with their money and not living beyond their means.

The thought of having to work into my 60s kills me. I'd rather sell up and move somewhere cheap and live like a king. South America or Asia or somewhere.

Some people like working. I used to. I once worked for some people in their seventies. They had over six million pounds in the bank, but chose to spend their days sitting in an office. I think some people enjoy power and prestige, which I find rather sad. And I suspect their lives are a bit hollow, with no outside interests. 

I had a very lucrative contract for quite a few years in my thirties and forties, and the investments I made then were very beneficial.  Once I hit 50 my career went downhill, companies tended to regard me as too old. I think this is common. At one interview I was asked questions by a foetus, such was the age difference. I tended to get offered roles using obsolete technology, which were not of interest. In retirement I have learnt new technology and created lots of free software, available on a developer’s web site, that would be beyond the ability of many if not most engineers in their twenties and thirties. I also ice skate better than most people half my age. Keeping the mind and body active is good. 

I could have carried on working, I was fairly well paid, had likeable colleagues, but as you indicate, retire late and you won’t have long to enjoy your savings, and it might be too late if you are not in good health. 50 is ideal, 60 is a bit late. I am 57 and very fit, but I don’t have the energy and agility I had in my twenties, and I have minor eye complaints. 

The problem with moving somewhere cheap is health insurance, and later on access to the UK pension. Places like South Africa have high crime rates. Property is cheap in France! 

Sounds like you made the most of everything you had before. Good choices and obviously a good career made the difference.

For me ideally I would retire at 50. Mainly because I work in the education sector so most of my days are spent working with kids and teenagers (3-18) and while at 32 I have that energy at 50 I dare say I won't. 

My work sector in my opinion is a young persons world (in my opinion).

Yeah health care is the one thing that would stop most people moving. I spent a summer a few years back in Asia and the quality of life vrs the cost was incredible. In some of the nicer parts of Vietnam £600-800 a month would more than cover a nice apartment, food and entertainment. Obviously you would have to have some form of insurance as well for health but depending on your age and health might not be too bad.

The "good choices" and "a good career" parts are questionable. I wasted eight years in academic research.

If you move to Vietnam, you either sell your UK house and probably lose the option to return, or you rent out your UK house with the issues that creates ie ensuring the tenants don't trash it. And yes that does happen. You best bet might be to move somewhere like Canada while you can. A high standard of living, good wages and cheap housing assuming you don't live in the posh part of a big city. It is too late for me to emigrate.

As for saving, some peple are extravagant. A friend eats out or gets a takeaway meal most evenings. And this isn't that uncommon. I can cook, and I eat a healthy diet without spending a fortune. Some people like a new car every three years. I run mine into the ground. Some people have expensive furniture. I learnt to restore Ercol furniture from the fifties onwards, the beech and elm chair I am sitting on cost £20 and looks like a new one costing £400. Some people have posh holidays, I don't. Some people like the latest iPhone, and PC. If you shove £6,000 into a fund, after 20 years it should be worth £30,000 in today's money or more. Obviously inflation eats into that. I guess it's the have your cake now, or save it till later attitude.

Health insurance is as you say probably okay until you get old or have underlying issues. Woest case you fly back to Blighty, and walk or stagger into a hospital.

Retireby40

BananaRepublic said:

Retireby40 said:

BananaRepublic said:

Retireby40 said:

BananaRepublic said:

My late father retired at 50, that was back in the days when companies and their pension schemes allowed early retirement. Plenty of people here have retired in their fifties. It is doable but you need to be a decent earner, and invest wisely. I don’t think you could do it on a teacher’s salary unless you had a rich mummy and daddy to help you onto the housing ladder early. 

I wouldn't consider retiring in your 50s as particularly early especially if you've been working maybe since 18-20. 50 on the button is probably perfect timing. Young enough to enjoy old enough to have money. To retire at 55-60 is good but a lot of people could retire close to that providing they've been half smart with their money and not living beyond their means.

The thought of having to work into my 60s kills me. I'd rather sell up and move somewhere cheap and live like a king. South America or Asia or somewhere.

Some people like working. I used to. I once worked for some people in their seventies. They had over six million pounds in the bank, but chose to spend their days sitting in an office. I think some people enjoy power and prestige, which I find rather sad. And I suspect their lives are a bit hollow, with no outside interests. 

I had a very lucrative contract for quite a few years in my thirties and forties, and the investments I made then were very beneficial.  Once I hit 50 my career went downhill, companies tended to regard me as too old. I think this is common. At one interview I was asked questions by a foetus, such was the age difference. I tended to get offered roles using obsolete technology, which were not of interest. In retirement I have learnt new technology and created lots of free software, available on a developer’s web site, that would be beyond the ability of many if not most engineers in their twenties and thirties. I also ice skate better than most people half my age. Keeping the mind and body active is good. 

I could have carried on working, I was fairly well paid, had likeable colleagues, but as you indicate, retire late and you won’t have long to enjoy your savings, and it might be too late if you are not in good health. 50 is ideal, 60 is a bit late. I am 57 and very fit, but I don’t have the energy and agility I had in my twenties, and I have minor eye complaints. 

The problem with moving somewhere cheap is health insurance, and later on access to the UK pension. Places like South Africa have high crime rates. Property is cheap in France! 

Sounds like you made the most of everything you had before. Good choices and obviously a good career made the difference.

For me ideally I would retire at 50. Mainly because I work in the education sector so most of my days are spent working with kids and teenagers (3-18) and while at 32 I have that energy at 50 I dare say I won't. 

My work sector in my opinion is a young persons world (in my opinion).

Yeah health care is the one thing that would stop most people moving. I spent a summer a few years back in Asia and the quality of life vrs the cost was incredible. In some of the nicer parts of Vietnam £600-800 a month would more than cover a nice apartment, food and entertainment. Obviously you would have to have some form of insurance as well for health but depending on your age and health might not be too bad.

The "good choices" and "a good career" parts are questionable. I wasted eight years in academic research.

If you move to Vietnam, you either sell your UK house and probably lose the option to return, or you rent out your UK house with the issues that creates ie ensuring the tenants don't trash it. And yes that does happen. You best bet might be to move somewhere like Canada while you can. A high standard of living, good wages and cheap housing assuming you don't live in the posh part of a big city. It is too late for me to emigrate.

As for saving, some peple are extravagant. A friend eats out or gets a takeaway meal most evenings. And this isn't that uncommon. I can cook, and I eat a healthy diet without spending a fortune. Some people like a new car every three years. I run mine into the ground. Some people have expensive furniture. I learnt to restore Ercol furniture from the fifties onwards, the beech and elm chair I am sitting on cost £20 and looks like a new one costing £400. Some people have posh holidays, I don't. Some people like the latest iPhone, and PC. If you shove £6,000 into a fund, after 20 years it should be worth £30,000 in today's money or more. Obviously inflation eats into that. I guess it's the have your cake now, or save it till later attitude.

Health insurance is as you say probably okay until you get old or have underlying issues. Woest case you fly back to Blighty, and walk or stagger into a hospital.

Would you say Vanguard S&P 500 is a decent place to throw money for the next 10-15 years?

Thrugelmir

HarryGray said:

I don't think the FIRE revolution is a scam? Its a large movement in America? 

In the US, ten days of annual leave is fairly common, plus there's no sick pay. Hardly surprising that people wish to retire early. 

BananaRepublic

Retireby40 said:
Would you say Vanguard S&P 500 is a decent place to throw money for the next 10-15 years?

You’d be better off starting a thread with that question to get a broad range of views. Also it’s wise to read some good books on investment. 

In the long term the US markets are likely to be a good investment, and a US index fund makes sense. However, throwing all of your eggs into one basket is questionable. I spread my funds more widely, and have had less in the US than was wise, but I have done well. Not as well as some of those who invest in single company shares though. 

chockydavid1983

I'm not a fan of the FIRE acronym.
I much prefer just FI. Once you've achieved FI, you can do whatever you like, where retiring early is just 1 option.
I'm working towards FI and I'll probably continue working part-time a long time after that.

barnstar2077

Retireby40 said:

The idea is ok if your single, have no ambition to have a family etc etc.

But to live of 30-40% of your salary is impossible for most.

What gets me is the "gurus" who sell the whole idea. If its so good why do you need 1000s of people to pay you to tell them.

Why do you have to put 5 new videos a week on YouTube and beg for subscribers if your making a killing with your investments.

There's plenty of people doing it quietly and fair play if that's what you want.

For me it is mainly down to lifestyle and buying my house at the right time.  My mortgage is next to nothing, so that is money that I am able to invest.  If I had bought a house recently, things would be very different.

Edit:  Also, I am earning well below the average UK salary, so it is definitely possible on a lower wage.