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    • pred02
    • By pred02 24th Jan 19, 4:24 PM
    • 75Posts
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    pred02
    Getting married.. prenup?
    • #1
    • 24th Jan 19, 4:24 PM
    Getting married.. prenup? 24th Jan 19 at 4:24 PM
    Hi,

    I am getting married in June. I know that pre-nups are not as common in the UK as they are across the pond and this is not a pleasant subject to discuss prior to getting married, but wanted to get a better understanding on what would happen given my circumstances in case of a divorce and if a pre-nup would be a smart idea.

    Context:

    I am in my mid-late thirties, I own a flat in London in which I invested and accumulated a bit of equity. My parents who are in good health also have assets/property they would pass onto me and my brother (this is abroad). My partner has some savings, but no property. Her parents also have assets that they would pass onto her and her sister.

    Ideally, my parents would like to protect assets they leave for me and my sister that, in case either I or my sister get a divorce these assets would not be touched by our respective partners.

    I also understand that one day if my partner and I were to purchase a house together, that the bulk of the equity would come from the sale of my property.

    Assuming that we get divorced after 2 years, which way do courts go, what is customary and in my case would a pre-nup be recommended?

    This is not an easy subject and I want to also be fair to my partner, but bad things do happen so want to know what is recommended from experience

    Thanks

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    Last edited by MSE Tine; 06-02-2019 at 8:01 AM.
Page 1
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 24th Jan 19, 4:38 PM
    • 4,073 Posts
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    Red-Squirrel
    • #2
    • 24th Jan 19, 4:38 PM
    • #2
    • 24th Jan 19, 4:38 PM
    Pre nups aren’t legally binding in this country.

    To be honest, it sounds like the best way to achieve what you want is to not get married. It’s not compulsory!
    • jackieblack
    • By jackieblack 24th Jan 19, 4:46 PM
    • 8,596 Posts
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    jackieblack
    • #3
    • 24th Jan 19, 4:46 PM
    • #3
    • 24th Jan 19, 4:46 PM
    If you got divorced after 2 years, this would be classed as a short marriage and the courts would seek to return you both to the financial position you were in before you married.
    This assumes that you don’t have any children.
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    • Happier Me
    • By Happier Me 24th Jan 19, 5:52 PM
    • 498 Posts
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    Happier Me
    • #4
    • 24th Jan 19, 5:52 PM
    • #4
    • 24th Jan 19, 5:52 PM
    So I'll caviat this with 'I'm far from an expert but' it would be sensible for your parents to speak to a solicitor about the possibility of using a trust to protect their assets from future divorce. It wouldn't be cheap and you would all need to understand the pros and cons, but otherwise this would be in the hands of the courts of you divorce.

    And as a happily married mum of 2, I would not marry again purely to protect my assets, in the unlikely event I got divorced. I would not begrudge my husband a penny of our assets or any inheritance I received and I'm the bigger earner and main carer to our children. But we've both worked hard for what we have and I wouldn't want that hard work distributed to a future husband who had no part in building up that wealth.

    If you decide to marry then you really do have to accept that assets you've built up prior to your marriage can not be protected.

    Just a thought, is there more protection if you live/marry in Scotland?
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 24th Jan 19, 6:28 PM
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    thorsoak
    • #5
    • 24th Jan 19, 6:28 PM
    • #5
    • 24th Jan 19, 6:28 PM
    I am another who would suggest that as your parents are concerned about protecting their legacies to you (and your sister) that they consult their solicitor about how they divide their estates. What happens if you have children? Would your parents want them to share in your family's estate? Talk to them.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 24th Jan 19, 7:53 PM
    • 13,382 Posts
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    unholyangel
    • #6
    • 24th Jan 19, 7:53 PM
    • #6
    • 24th Jan 19, 7:53 PM
    Prenuptial agreements basically are the same as financial settlements agreed between parties during the divorce proceedings - they're not binding on the court, the court can ignore them but if certain conditions are met, then the courts are more likely to uphold them.

    Such as getting independent legal advice (both parties) before signing, full financial disclosure, that its not one sided (only protecting one of them). Theres other conditions too but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

    The courts don't force people to take assets they don't want, their main concern is that parties are aware of their legal position and aren't being coerced or forced into an unfair split.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 24th Jan 19, 9:06 PM
    • 7,223 Posts
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    TBagpuss
    • #7
    • 24th Jan 19, 9:06 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Jan 19, 9:06 PM
    Unholyangel is spot on - the other criteria is that the agreement has to be signed a reasonable time before the wedding, so it isn't signed under duress "Sign or I cancel the wedding"

    The other advantage of a pre-nup is that it means that the two of you haveto talk about finances, and your respective views and expectations about what would happen to your assets if you were to separate.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 25th Jan 19, 12:38 AM
    • 39,693 Posts
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #8
    • 25th Jan 19, 12:38 AM
    • #8
    • 25th Jan 19, 12:38 AM
    The other advantage of a pre-nup is that it means that the two of you haveto talk about finances, and your respective views and expectations about what would happen to your assets if you were to separate.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    I'd have been perfectly happy to discuss our finances with my DH before we married, but if he'd suggested a prenup I'd have been out.

    fortunately we had next to nothing so the question never arose. It's never been 'his' and 'mine', it's all just ours.

    But we went into our marriage with the view that it was 'for life', 'for better, for worse; for richer, for poorer', and allowing thoughts about 'what if we split up?' felt like a contradiction of that.

    Of course your parents can take advice about protecting THEIR assets, but if you think YOURS need to be protected then I'd question if you're ready for marriage.
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    • dandy-candy
    • By dandy-candy 25th Jan 19, 1:15 AM
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    dandy-candy
    • #9
    • 25th Jan 19, 1:15 AM
    • #9
    • 25th Jan 19, 1:15 AM
    I’m with Sue on this one. If your going into a marriage already planning for a divorce, why even bother?

    My husband was in a pretty good position financially when we met, I was on the dole. He never once mentioned any financial matters about if we split, and we had our 20th wedding anniversary last year. In for a penny, in for a pound as they say.
    • 74jax
    • By 74jax 25th Jan 19, 5:56 AM
    • 4,967 Posts
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    74jax
    I
    My husband was in a pretty good position financially when we met, I was on the dole. .
    Originally posted by dandy-candy
    So was mine but he wanted one. Situation with us was I wasnt fussed in the slightest. So we had one. It's important to know both don't mind if, otherwise if one wants it and the other doesn't it won't work.

    However had he said 'my parents want us to have one in case they die and leave me inheritance and you take it in a divorce' I'm not sure I would. I think what happens in a marriage is to the pair of you. However everyone sees it differently and perhaps when I come to leave my DD something i will be thinking the same. Who knows.
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    • Amara
    • By Amara 25th Jan 19, 6:55 AM
    • 2,065 Posts
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    Amara
    It''s a cultural thing sharing everything, before and after wedding. It comes from old days, when women couldn't hold properties in their own rights and their husbands were resposible for their debts. I was born in the country, where what what yours before wedding, remains yours after wedding and divorce, should it comes to it. It saves so much hassle.
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    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 25th Jan 19, 7:47 AM
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    Keep pedalling
    This seems to be coming from your parents rather than you, and frankly I would not let them push me into such an agreement, that in all likelyhood will cause friction between you and your future wife.
    • Grezz24
    • By Grezz24 25th Jan 19, 8:26 AM
    • 215 Posts
    • 288 Thanks
    Grezz24
    Surely a marriage is about sharing your life and everything with it, a prenup undermines that in my view.

    Id suggest speaking to your partner first as she may feel the same way.
    • andydownes123
    • By andydownes123 25th Jan 19, 10:28 AM
    • 547 Posts
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    andydownes123
    Not worth the paper they are printed on.
    • pimento
    • By pimento 25th Jan 19, 12:58 PM
    • 5,629 Posts
    • 7,305 Thanks
    pimento
    I'd have been perfectly happy to discuss our finances with my DH before we married, but if he'd suggested a prenup I'd have been out.

    fortunately we had next to nothing so the question never arose. It's never been 'his' and 'mine', it's all just ours.

    But we went into our marriage with the view that it was 'for life', 'for better, for worse; for richer, for poorer', and allowing thoughts about 'what if we split up?' felt like a contradiction of that.

    Of course your parents can take advice about protecting THEIR assets, but if you think YOURS need to be protected then I'd question if you're ready for marriage.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue

    I also went into marriage thinking it would be for life but you can't plan for the unexpected. I was married for 28 years when my husband died. We'd have been married still.

    When I met my present husband, I had an adult son and a house and he had a house, so we had to make sure that my son was provided for before we married in the event of my death.

    It's not always straightforward.
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    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 26th Jan 19, 12:01 AM
    • 39,693 Posts
    • 36,850 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    I also went into marriage thinking it would be for life but you can't plan for the unexpected. I was married for 28 years when my husband died. We'd have been married still.

    When I met my present husband, I had an adult son and a house and he had a house, so we had to make sure that my son was provided for before we married in the event of my death.

    It's not always straightforward.
    Originally posted by pimento
    I can absolutely see that, but it's not the situation the OP describes. I think the OP needs to think really clearly about this: his parents can do as they like to protect THEIR assets in the event of HIS potential divorce, but putting pressure on him to draw up a pre-nup ... moving into dangerous territory IMO.
    Still knitting!
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    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats, 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself, multiple poppies, 3 peony flowers, 4 butterflies ...
    Current projects: ready to decrease / decreasing on all parts of the mohair cardigan pattern! but moved onto wrist warmers for friends at Christmas ...
    • Jimmybucks
    • By Jimmybucks 26th Jan 19, 12:05 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Jimmybucks
    Whoa did not know this.

    Sorry, meant to quote the post about prenups not being valid. News to me, not that I'd need one.
    • macman
    • By macman 26th Jan 19, 2:12 AM
    • 43,238 Posts
    • 18,406 Thanks
    macman
    They are perfectly 'valid', but if contested in court, then the court can issue judgement that disregards the terms of the pre-nup.
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    • michelle09
    • By michelle09 27th Jan 19, 1:11 PM
    • 834 Posts
    • 5,711 Thanks
    michelle09
    My husband muttered about prenups when we first got together. I was fairly blunt at pointing out that if someone wanted to plan the divorce before the wedding had even taken place, it wasn't someone I was going to marry.



    As it happens, I have always earned at least 10k/year more than my husband, and if we were to have children, he would take the bulk of the parental leave which would create a further gap in income levels. But we have always considered money to be 'ours' rather than mine or his. And as we have now lived together for five years, I believe if we ever got divorced the courts would aim for a 50:50 split.


    However, OP, this is what works for us. To start with, I would take your parents out of the equation and speak to your fiancee about your finances as a couple. What your parents wish to do with their assets/property is their own decisions. It may not be a pleasant topic but it's a really important one to talk about before committing to a marriage.
    • Arthurian
    • By Arthurian 27th Jan 19, 3:01 PM
    • 668 Posts
    • 617 Thanks
    Arthurian
    So, on the flip side, could a parent ensure in their will that any inheritance would be to a son only, which the son might want to share with his wife, but might not?
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