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  • FIRST POST
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 31st Oct 18, 1:36 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 6Thanks
    mwalimu
    Leaving Car Park
    • #1
    • 31st Oct 18, 1:36 PM
    Leaving Car Park 31st Oct 18 at 1:36 PM
    On the morning of 17 October 2018 a car was
    parked in a retail park. The terms there state no parking outside shop opening hours and no parking & leaving.
    No PCN was placed on the car. A PCN letter was sent. There are two photos one close up of car windscreen and one showing a car in its bay. There is nobody in the car. In the background the car park is almost empty.
    Incident date October Issue date: October.


    The PCN letter was sent by normal post and could have been delivered around 23
    /24 October while I was away. I returned home mon 30 October to find the PCN in the heap of post.
    Your standard advice is not to ignore a PCN but as there was no PCN on the car and,

    presumably, no proof of delivery could one
    chuck the PCN in the recycling bin? With
    valuable parcels and significant documents
    one uses Recorded Delivery, or similar, with a signature to prove delivery. As they can not
    prove delivery would one be able in this
    instance to ignore a PCN?








    If you recommend responding to the PCN would it be a legitimate reason to decline to pay by telling them that they have submitted to me no photographic evidence of the occupant/s crossing the site boundary?
    I note that I must pay up 60 "within 14 days of issue" ie 2 November 2018 or have to dig very deep to find 100.
    Sorry to be so late with my search for advice but I have had difficulty in joining this forum. In view of the extremely short "window" your speedy help will be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by mwalimu; 01-11-2018 at 2:28 AM. Reason: Advice from members
Page 2
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 7th Nov 18, 7:16 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Just back
    Please look at my version of your suggested response to a PCN letter only. My "offence" is "Parking & Leaving the Site". Photo evidence was submitted of car in car park but not of occupant/s leaving the car park.
    Do you think that "my version" is "good to go" ? Any improvements will be valued.


    Re PCN number:

    I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.

    Your PCN states that the reason for its issue is Parking & Leaving Site. You submitted only photographs of the car at the Bridge Road Retail Park. , I require all photos taken, a clear image of the signage and of the occupant/s leaving the site.

    I have made a formal complaint about your predatory conduct my MP and will also to your client landowner, appraising all parties of the debate where Parliament agreed: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''. Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and that 'we make it up most of the time' (BBC Watchdog).

    Formal note:
    Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service.
    Yours faithfully,


    On another topic. Only with great difficulty did I find "my" thread, used both my "name" and " Leaving Car Park"

    Anyways
    Guys/esses, many thanks for your help & forbearance.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Nov 18, 7:39 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,451 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Looks fine to me, so get that submitted online, and I beg you not to ask us about the usual letter that PP send out asking who was driving (not worthy of a post!).

    Only with great difficulty did I find "my" thread, used both my "name" and " Leaving Car Park"
    But you can find all your own threads and posts by clicking on your own username (and you can find mine, by clicking on my username, or anyones!). Or looking up your profile/user CP, you can then click on 'statistics', and all threads started or all posts...
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 10th Nov 18, 4:02 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Guys/esses
    Thanks everyone for all your advice. Appeal duly submitted on PP's online form. (With great difficulty did I manage to make & save a copy of it.Thanks to local library staff) Acknowledgement received swiftly. "Response with 35 days". Fingers etc. crossed.
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 25th Nov 18, 3:34 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Thanks for your advice. In my response to the PCN based on your model I said, "You submitted only photographs of the car at the B*** R*** Retail Park. I require all photos taken, a clear image of the signage and of the occupant/s leaving the site." To date, 2 weeks after their acknowledgement, I have received no photos. Would it be a good idea now to "chase" the delivery to me of these photos, or would it be more appropriate for me to "chase" nearer the end of their "35 days" response statement? Your advice will be greatly appreciated.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Nov 18, 5:41 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,451 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Send them a SAR which forces their Data Protection Officer to show all photos taken. Do that today - see their PRIVACY webpage for the contact email or address.
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 25th Nov 18, 9:20 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Coupon Mad. Thank you for your speedy & helpful advice. Even I am amazed at my ignorance; what is an SAR?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 25th Nov 18, 9:43 PM
    • 20,514 Posts
    • 32,425 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Coupon Mad. Thank you for your speedy & helpful advice. Even I am amazed at my ignorance; what is an SAR?
    Originally posted by mwalimu
    Have you tried Google - it will hit you like a torrent! This really isn't an online chat service. We are so busy.

    63 separate cases today currently being dealt with - many complicated and involving numerous (often ill-defined/semi-literate) queries to unravel. By the end of today's/tonight's shift, it will approach 100 - as we get most days.

    Thank goodness for Coupon-mad who will keep going (as in most days/nights) until around 3:00am in the morning. I really don't know what people expect.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 25-11-2018 at 9:50 PM.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 25th Nov 18, 10:14 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Thank you Umkaas for your response and apologies. On returning home and finding that SAR means Subject Access Request ( section 7 Data Protection Act 1998) I logged in to MSE forums intending to say that Id found the answer and will take the action recommended by Couponwise only to find your response. So thank you again for your great work for the Forum.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Nov 18, 10:16 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,451 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    And the NEWBIES thread tells you where to find a decent concise example.
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 28th Nov 18, 6:08 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Time line
    17 October "Breach of contract"
    23 October PCN received
    1 November Appeal submitted
    25 November SAR submitted & acknowledged
    26 November Appeal rejected. Appeal to POPLA within 28 days, say 24 December
    28 November DPO asks for scan of ID & V5. Respond within 30 days, say 30 December.
    If the DPO is not swift in supplying photos the time for following the POPLA will have passed.
    In your experience is a DPO likely to respond in a timely manner?

    On a happier note I contacted my MP an on 28 November this response "...and his casework team who will be in touch to hopefully offer assistance on this. "..

    Thank you everyone for your help &, especially, forbearance.
    mwalimu
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 28th Nov 18, 6:15 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mwalimu
    "Breach of contract" 17 October
    Form received 23 October
    Appeal submitted 1 November
    SAR submitted and acknowledged 25 November
    Appeal rejected 26 November. "Appeal to POPLA within 28 days", say 24 December
    28 November DPO ask for scans of id & V5. "Response with 30 days of receipt of documents", say 30 December.
    If DPO is slow in supplying the photos I could be too late to follow the POPLA route.
    From your experience does Pxxxxxx Pxxxx's DPO usually respond in a timely manner?

    On a happier note I have written to my MP; 28 November response "...and his casework team who will be in touch to hopefully offer assistance on this."

    Thanks everyone for your help & forbearance.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 28th Nov 18, 6:23 PM
    • 38,003 Posts
    • 85,338 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Copy of V5 and PCN number should be enough to satisfy their DPO.

    The ICO website says this:

    To avoid personal data about one individual being sent to another,
    either accidentally or as a result of deception, you need to be
    satisfied that you know the identity of the requester. You can ask
    for enough information to judge whether the person making the
    request is the individual to whom the personal data relates (or a
    person authorised to make a SAR on their behalf).
    The key point is that you must be reasonable about what you ask
    for. You should not request a lot more information if the identity of
    the person making the request is obvious to you. This is particularly
    the case when you have an ongoing relationship with the individual


    You have a continuing relationship as the scammers sent a PCN to the keeper and the person with the same name and address, V5 copy, and PCN number is responding.

    According to the ICO, asking for photo ID is not acceptable as they have nothing to compare it to. They also say that the clock starts from the date of the original SAR. They should not extend or delay if they have simply requested proof of ID following the original request.

    If they don't respond within the original 30 days from the date of the original request, or refuse to reply, or ask for further proof, then you must complain to the ICO in writing.

    Construct a draft PoPLA appeal using the template points from post 3 of the NEWBIES.
    Include, "no proof of leaving site". Even if they send a photo of some random person they will not be able to prove it is an occupant of the car.

    PoPLA codes last 32 days, so hopefully you will still have a few days to add the final point that they have failed to comply with your SAR with pics and thus proof of someone leaving site.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 28-11-2018 at 6:31 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 28th Nov 18, 6:57 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mwalimu
    Fruitcake
    Thanks for your speedy & very thorough response.
    Sorry about sending my message at both 18:08 & 18:14. Having "posted" the first one I could not find it on "my" page so had to rewrite & re-post it.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 28th Nov 18, 7:01 PM
    • 11,195 Posts
    • 11,760 Thanks
    KeithP
    Feel free to delete any post made in error.
    .
    • mwalimu
    • By mwalimu 30th Nov 18, 7:29 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    mwalimu
    "Don't make the same mistake" is the title of an article with photos in The (Teesside) Gazette (page 8) on Thursday 29 November 2018. It's about a chap who used the this car park and, having left the car park, received PCN by post and paid up. Now he and the Gazette are warning people. The article ends "The Gazette has contacted Premium Park for comment.".
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