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  • FIRST POST
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 3:26 PM
    • 27Posts
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    ruthcain1
    Investment advice for person panicking about Brexit
    • #1
    • 7th Aug 18, 3:26 PM
    Investment advice for person panicking about Brexit 7th Aug 18 at 3:26 PM
    I am a pretty ignorant investor who had a bit of cash to invest 3/4 years ago and just follwed some very basic advice on spreading risk etc, I believe from the telegraph. To my surprise (and probably because of underlying market conditions or luck I suspect) the value has gone up 38%. This is my current holding. I have what's now a total of about 70,000 split roughly between no 1 son's ISA (he is 15 so it matures pretty soon and is his), 23k in no.2 son's ISA (he is 11) and about 11500 in mine.

    I am on HL for ease but may change this, if there is another suitable platform for someone inexperienced like me, as I hear it's overpriced.

    As I'm increasingly panicking about my prospects post Brexit as I have chronic health issues and am only 45 but already down to part time work only, I've realised I need to sort this out.

    I have been watching other advice threads closely and note that most small investors are being advised to ditch their various funds and just consolidate into one global. Twotonealex is being advised on which one right now, I am seeing support for a Blackrock fund.

    The lowest two performing funds in my lot have consistently been the Aberdeen Latin American Equity and the Newton Asian income so I am thinking of ditching those in particular and swapping for something else but not sure where to choose.

    My thanks in advance for taking the time to help me out. Any advisors who find themselves in the depths of SW London are welcome to pm me and request a free drink or 3.
Page 1
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 3:27 PM
    • 27 Posts
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    ruthcain1
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 3:27 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Aug 18, 3:27 PM
    oops sorry my portfolio details did not post. They are
    Lindsell Train Global Equity Class A 41.0% Global
    2 Newton Asian Income Class W 29.1% Asia Pacific Excluding Japan
    3 Aberdeen Fund Managers Latin American Equity Class I 11.3% Specialist
    4 Legg Mason IF Japan Equity Class X (Hedged) 9.7% Japan
    5 AXA Framlington Health Class Z 7.6% Specialist
    6 Fidelity UK Smaller Companies Class A 1.3% UK Smaller Companies
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 7th Aug 18, 3:52 PM
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    eskbanker
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 3:52 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Aug 18, 3:52 PM
    I have been watching other advice threads closely and note that most small investors are being advised to ditch their various funds and just consolidate into one global.
    Originally posted by ruthcain1
    As you'll probably have seen by now, the main rationale for that approach is that global multi-asset funds have coverage of all the key sectors and take care of all rebalancing to maintain the relative proportions. I'm not experienced enough to judge your portfolio but suspect that you'd struggle to articulate clearly exactly why you hold those funds in those proportions and ignore other markets and asset classes and so on, so why not let experts make those calls? As the investor you still need to make the judgement calls about the level of risk you're prepared to tolerate though.

    I am on HL for ease but may change this, if there is another suitable platform for someone inexperienced like me, as I hear it's overpriced.
    Originally posted by ruthcain1
    It's often said on here that it's one of the more expensive platforms, but conversely it's also said that you get what you pay for, so many are quite happy to pay a premium price for a premium service. If you're happy enough to use a cheaper platform, there are plenty to choose from, see

    http://monevator.com/find-the-best-online-broker/
    http://www.comparefundplatforms.com/
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5583030
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 7th Aug 18, 4:05 PM
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    Alexland
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:05 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:05 PM
    Firstly as the hitchhiker's guide says Don't Panic as Brexit has probably been very beneficial to your investments as the devalued pound has boosted the value of your overseas holdings.

    Secondly investment is intended for people who are at least 5-7 preferably 10 years away from needing to withdraw the money so they have time to ride the ups and downs.

    In the case of your 15 year old if they intend to use the money at 18 for university etc then they may no longer have an investment timeline. For the other son I like the Vanguard Target Retirement funds for Junior ISAs as they automatically reduce volatility as the withdrawal date approaches.

    For your own investments I am unclear how they will be used in your life so will not comment.

    Alex
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 7th Aug 18, 4:10 PM
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    dunstonh
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:10 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:10 PM
    I am a pretty ignorant investor
    Just noting that in readiness for the next quoted bit....

    oops sorry my portfolio details did not post. They are
    Lindsell Train Global Equity Class A 41.0% Global
    2 Newton Asian Income Class W 29.1% Asia Pacific Excluding Japan
    3 Aberdeen Fund Managers Latin American Equity Class I 11.3% Specialist
    4 Legg Mason IF Japan Equity Class X (Hedged) 9.7% Japan
    5 AXA Framlington Health Class Z 7.6% Specialist
    6 Fidelity UK Smaller Companies Class A 1.3% UK Smaller Companies
    A very very high risk spread that has the whiff of fashion investing. Totally unsuitable for an inexperienced investor and in for one hell of a roller coaster ride during volatile markets.

    follwed some very basic advice on spreading risk etc, I believe from the telegraph.
    a) not advice
    b) newspapers promotion of funds ranges from unbelievable one minute to supporting its advertisers the next.

    As I'm increasingly panicking about my prospects post Brexit
    Why? With your holdings, a hard Brexit would be ideal for you. A fall in Sterling would increase your values.

    I have been watching other advice threads closely and note that most small investors are being advised to ditch their various funds and just consolidate into one global. Twotonealex is being advised on which one right now, I am seeing support for a Blackrock fund.
    A multi-asset fund would be better for an inexperienced investor who isnt using an adviser. I suspect it is unlikely you wanted such a gung ho risk level with your current spread. So, a lower risk multi-asset fund would be better. Blackrock offer these and there are hundreds of others.

    Also, cash may be more suited for some of it in respect of the very short term objective (the 15 year old)

    The lowest two performing funds in my lot have consistently been the Aberdeen Latin American Equity and the Newton Asian income so I am thinking of ditching those in particular and swapping for something else but not sure where to choose.
    Your reasons for ditching them are completely wrong. That isn't how you invest. You have only been 3/4 years and a cycle is over 10 years. Every area in a cycle will have negative periods. Making a decision on the basis of short term performance in an area which has had weaker returns, in general, is not what you should be doing.

    However, I would ditch them in your case because of lack of knowledge.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 4:23 PM
    • 27 Posts
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    ruthcain1
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:23 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:23 PM
    Also I'm getting the vague feeling you are pretty annoyed as my silly 'fashion investing' (as I said above I just googled some good funds) has actually gained me 38% over the years purely by chance.... and now I'm trying to get sensible. Am I right?

    I don't think the markets exist as a vehicle to punish the foolhardy, much as you might like them to.
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 4:26 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    ruthcain1
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:26 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:26 PM
    btw I think I did go for a high risk strategy (from the telegraph which was the only place I looked!!! Hang me from the highest tree for being a lawyer in a non financial discipline who didn't go to a stockbroker!!) as there was a while to wait before I needed anything to pay off, I wasn't panicking about the state of my job etc and I was well off and not ill then. Now my eldest is 15 clearly his fund at very least needs to be in something much more stable.

    See? Nothing to get so very, very angry about. Cheers, enjoy your afternoon anyway. Sounds like you could do with a break
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 4:32 PM
    • 27 Posts
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    ruthcain1
    • #8
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:32 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:32 PM
    You also didn't read my post properly re Brexit. Iwrote that I am 'increasingly panicking about my prospects post Brexit as I have chronic health issues and am only 45 but already down to part time work only, I've realised I need to sort this out.'

    This is to do with my employment and personal prospects, NOT the value of, say, UK or investments.

    Please, if you are going to be so snooty to newcomers, be a bit more careful yourself to get everything absolutely right.
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 4:39 PM
    • 27 Posts
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    ruthcain1
    • #9
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:39 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Aug 18, 4:39 PM
    Thankyou very much Alexland. My panic re Brexit is not about investment value as I had an inkling foreign investments would go up if the falls further as looks likely.

    It is more that I am having to re-evaluate my entire lifestyle and future income sources, as I don't think post Brexit Britain is going to be very kind to employees in a lot of fields (I am in law but have a chronic illness which is getting worse and my prospects of returning to full time work are thin, hence with the impact of Brexit on my sector and the UK generally, I am even more worried now). A few years back I was pretty gung ho as you can tell from the way I've invested.

    I can't believe how rude and arrogant some posters are on here (not you!) when you come on announcing up front that you are ignorant of the market and have probably made mistakes (although mistakes that have worked out rather profitably to date?!) That is the whole reason I'm looking for advice now, isn't it?! Doesn't take a financial genius to work that out....

    I am going to switch the lads' portfolios into something lower risk all round but cash rates look pretty !!!!! so I was going to wait a year before transferring any of eldest's into cash. I think I will leave mine as is but switch away from a couple of the specialist funds into a global equity this year and then de-risk a bit later as I may need cash to buy some property in Ireland.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 7th Aug 18, 4:39 PM
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    Alexland
    Sorry I don't know which of us has offended you most but I promise we were all trying to be helpful. Alex.
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 4:46 PM
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    ruthcain1
    Not you at all Alexland. The person above sneering at me for 'fashion investing' or whatever that is.

    I suppose it may be his personal style, or maybe as I feel very ill and worried about my prospects today, I'm oversensitive.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 7th Aug 18, 5:15 PM
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    dunstonh
    I don't think the markets exist as a vehicle to punish the foolhardy, much as you might like them to.
    That spread could lose 70% or so in a crash. That is how it would punish you.

    Also I'm getting the vague feeling you are pretty annoyed as my silly 'fashion investing'
    It would be silly for anyone to get annoyed over what an unknown on the internet has done for themselves. As it happens, fashion investing is a common mistake by newbie investors. So, its nothing new.

    Please, if you are going to be so snooty to newcomers, be a bit more careful yourself to get everything absolutely right.
    If you are reading the comments as snooty, rude or arrogant then either you need to adjust your level of sensitivity from snowflake to normal or re-read them and realise that there is no hint of that.
    Last edited by dunstonh; 07-08-2018 at 5:24 PM.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Thrugelmir
    • By Thrugelmir 7th Aug 18, 5:33 PM
    • 60,090 Posts
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    Thrugelmir
    Also I'm getting the vague feeling you are pretty annoyed as my silly 'fashion investing' (as I said above I just googled some good funds) has actually gained me 38% over the years purely by chance.... and now I'm trying to get sensible. Am I right?
    Originally posted by ruthcain1
    Did anyone foresee the extent that Central Banks would prop up the global financial system in the past decade? Has been a great investment run for many. Withdrawl is underway. We are now heading into another period of uncertainty. As there's no knowing what the outcome will be. Stagflation, Japanese style secular stagnation etc etc. The roller coaster hasn't finished it's circuit yet.
    Financial disasters happen when the last person who can remember what went wrong last time has left the building.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 7th Aug 18, 5:48 PM
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    bostonerimus
    Ruth,
    Your portfolio is a list of well know and popular funds and hence the "fashion" comments. Many people have similar portfolios after reading the league tables in the newspapers, however, such portfolios are probably too risky and volatile for someone new to investing. If you can ride out the large swings in value that you might have then after a few decades you'll probably be ok. But a portfolio should be more diverse and include bonds, cash, property etc as well as equities.

    As far as Brexit is concerned I think you should stick with a globally diversified portfolio, maybe include some high quality foreign bonds as who knows what will happen to UK bonds and gilts post Brexit, maybe their rates will go up to encourage foreign investment.....I don't know. Unless you have the chance to move then you'll just have to muddle through Brexit, for good or ill, with the rest of your compatriots.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • Linton
    • By Linton 7th Aug 18, 5:52 PM
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    Linton
    Also I'm getting the vague feeling you are pretty annoyed as my silly 'fashion investing' (as I said above I just googled some good funds) has actually gained me 38% over the years purely by chance.... and now I'm trying to get sensible. Am I right?

    I don't think the markets exist as a vehicle to punish the foolhardy, much as you might like them to.
    Originally posted by ruthcain1

    That is exactly how they act! In an alternative universe not very different to this one you could have lost more than half your investment. What universe we will be living in during the next few years is unpredictable.

    Fashion investing - choosing a random set of funds on the basis of them being recommended by pundits as having performed very well in the recent past. In general you will find that they havent done well because they are "good" funds, but rather because they invest in niche areas which just happened to have enjoyed a period of very good returns. There is no guarantee that the high performance will continue. Perhaps you should research how Japanese investments have peformed over the past 40 years say.

    The downside is that they are likely to be heavily focussed in a few areas and completely absent in others. So if your chosen niche areas crash your wealth really suffers and if other areas outperform you dont gain. Much better to try and invest in as many different countries and industries as you can.
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 6:49 PM
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    ruthcain1
    Yes, but they clearly occasionally reward the foolish too, as is quite clear from what has happened to me over FOUR YEARS!! :d. I think you have rather too much desire to exercise schadenfreude, although you can't in this case. I am well aware markets can crash. Why not just accept I am now trying to sort the issues out?

    Ironically I only did so because I'm no longer in a position to absorb long term losses. In the past I was wealthy for the long term or so I thought. I am now being more careful. So kindly rein in the moralising.

    There is another guy on these threads who appears to have pursued a similar high risk strategy deliberately I am not entirely thick and did check regularly to see how the funds were doing. If they had started to lose I would have pulled them out straight away. Granted they could have collapsed overnight but they didn't and here I am trying to invest more sensibly. For which I'm still getting a load of crap from the wise
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 6:55 PM
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    ruthcain1
    Thank you anyway for your advice. I think I am just not used to the tone here; I give advice elsewhere on non-financial legal matters and there's simply no way I'd address people coming for advice like this- particularly if they were at risk, or had made mistakes and were looking to fix them. But I suppose that's the tone here and I will get used to it.

    I've checked the boys funds and it appears I only exposed my own to the risky Japanese etc investments, so I'm obviously not quite as stupid as you lot (and even I) had believed. Most of theirs already seem to be in a global fund (F and C, not sure why I chose that one and I am not sure if its mixed assets or all equities- I think the latter which presumably is too risky.)

    My own fund I am now going to try to build up for retirement as I can't count on work anymore and I expect to have to leave the UK too. It's obviously very small now. So I presume I can put that in a 100% equities fund.
    • NoMore
    • By NoMore 7th Aug 18, 8:05 PM
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    NoMore
    Nobody called you stupid, just inexperienced, which you yourself admitted.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 7th Aug 18, 8:10 PM
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    jimjames
    Also I'm getting the vague feeling you are pretty annoyed as my silly 'fashion investing' (as I said above I just googled some good funds) has actually gained me 38% over the years purely by chance.... and now I'm trying to get sensible. Am I right?
    Originally posted by ruthcain1
    I'm struggling to understand which bits you're reading that are making you come up with comments like that. Personally I have no annoyance or otherwise about any other investor's strategy but you need to be aware how lucky you have been and that luck may not continue. However it's good that you recognise that and want to sort it out
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • ruthcain1
    • By ruthcain1 7th Aug 18, 8:38 PM
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    ruthcain1
    of course I'm aware my luck may well not continue... That was the whole point of my post?!

    Other users DO notice the rudeness, by the way, especially toward people who've had the temerity to invest for themselves. I've had private messages to this effect and been told not to let it put me off the boards. Which has been helpful.
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