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Is this worth appealing or just paying? Please help

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  • Castle
    Castle Posts: 4,730 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Danlad99 wrote: »
    No one yet given any indication whether the signage or lack of is infact poorly placed giving a good chance of popla cancellation, which suggests it isn't?
    Here's a win at POPLA for poor signage:-
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=74614297&postcount=3114
  • Danlad99
    Danlad99 Posts: 25 Forumite
    I'm just about to use the standard template to get the popla code from the PPC.

    However, when it comes to giving a reason to popla, how is it for example possible to say no contract with the owner was shown, when I hadn't even asked for it?

    Also, can someone confirm that this NTK doesn't fall foul of the 14 day rule (it Is 15 days, but the rule only applies under certain circumstances, which I cant seem to understand.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,276 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    However, when it comes to giving a reason to popla, how is it for example possible to say no contract with the owner was shown, when I hadn't even asked for it?
    You're not dealing with POPLA yet. In your POPLA You ask for any and every bit of PROOF you require (whether you get it or not is another matter). When you eventually come to Your POPLA appeal, the reason you use is 'Other'.
    Also, can someone confirm that this NTK doesn't fall foul of the 14 day rule (it Is 15 days, but the rule only applies under certain circumstances, which I cant seem to understand.
    Nothing datewise totally invalidates the PCN. If the PPC is using ANPR or camera capture and they wish to invoke Keeper Liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, the Notice to Keeper must be 'given' (received by the registered keeper) by the 14th day commencing on the day following the parking event. So parking event date is a Day 0, the following day is Day 1. Count from there.

    If they are not seeking KL, they can serve the notice at any time up to and including the date on which their access to the DVLA database expires for the specific parking event - 6 months.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • beamerguy
    beamerguy Posts: 17,587 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Danlad99 wrote: »

    I think because popla pretty much ignore all copy paste stuff of various vague reasons and focus on the main one.

    POPLA .... I doubt they ignore copy and paste ? when
    all their replies are copy and paste with a variant.

    The point of templates is a general guideline and open
    for you to add points relevant to you
    At the end of the day, it's your job to convince POPLA
    EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE RUBBISH ASSESSORS
  • Edna_Basher
    Edna_Basher Posts: 782 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Posts
    Yes, the PCN was delivered outside of the relevant period for the PPC to be able to use Schedule 4 of POFA to claim unpaid parking charges from the keeper.
    • Date of parking event: Tuesday 17 July 2108
    • Relevant period: 14 days from Wednesday 18 July - Tuesday 31 July 2018 inclusive
    • Date PCN posted: Wednesday 1 August 2018
    • Date PCN deemed delivered: Friday 3 August 2018 = outside of the relevant period
    So long as the driver is not revealed, even the weakest POPLA assessor should understand that this PCN does not comply with POFA.
  • Danlad99
    Danlad99 Posts: 25 Forumite
    Yes, the PCN was delivered outside of the relevant period for the PPC to be able to use Schedule 4 of POFA to claim unpaid parking charges from the keeper.
    • Date of parking event: Tuesday 17 July 2108
    • Relevant period: 14 days from Wednesday 18 July - Tuesday 31 July 2018 inclusive
    • Date PCN posted: Wednesday 1 August 2018
    • Date PCN deemed delivered: Friday 3 August 2018 = outside of the relevant period
    So long as the driver is not revealed, even the weakest POPLA assessor should understand that this PCN does not comply with POFA.


    That's great thank you. But how do I know the PPC is using POFA. Also nowhere in the letter does suggest liability to the registered keeper if the driver is not given. Does that not then just mean in my first letter to the PPC I do not reveal the driver, and there is nothing they can do, and cant / wont message me again as they have not said the RK is ultimately responsible.

    Also do I mention this the email to the PPC, or save everything for POPLA
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,276 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 5 August 2018 at 2:09PM
    Keep all this for POPLA - no matter what you put to the PPC, the outcome will be a rejection by them. There is no income from upheld appeals.

    Parking Control Solutions are a tiny outfit and unlikely to have (or be able to commit) the resource to successfully defeat a strong and lengthy POPLA appeal. Do your research in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #3 to start your initial thinking on developing your appeal once you get your POPLA Code.

    Know who you're dealing with:

    https://padi.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203683022-Parking-Control-Solutions-Ltd

    http://www.parkingappeals.info/companydata/Parking_Control_Solutions.html

    Just looking at the NtK - Reason for issue 'NO PARKING OR WAITING AT ANY TIME'. So no contract to park is offered, therefore this is either a Penalty (no private company can penalise any one) or alternatively a trespass has occurred and the remedy for that lies exclusively with the landowner, not the PPC (as confirmed by The Supreme Court in ParkingEye v Beavis). Do some research on this because this can be a major POPLA appeal point - maybe sufficient a strong point to put PCS off paying their POPLA fee to contest.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Danlad99
    Danlad99 Posts: 25 Forumite
    Thanks guys I'm just writing up my responses to both.... Shall I leave the one to the ppc very blank, like the template, without listing where I think I've got them by the b###s just to get the popla code, or should I put some of stuff in that popla will get, in hope that all the points mentioned to them will just make them cancel it
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 43,276 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Danlad99 wrote: »
    Thanks guys I'm just writing up my responses to both.... Shall I leave the one to the ppc very blank, like the template, without listing where I think I've got them by the b###s just to get the popla code, or should I put some of stuff in that popla will get, in hope that all the points mentioned to them will just make them cancel it
    Did you misunderstand what I advised?
    Keep all this for POPLA - no matter what you put to the PPC, the outcome will be a rejection by them. There is no income from upheld appeals.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Danlad99
    Danlad99 Posts: 25 Forumite
    Thanks.

    Letter of appeal sent to PPC. I also noticed the signage does not explain what the APNR data will be used for, nor does the signage have planning permission from checking the local authority portal
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