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  • FIRST POST
    • Danlad99
    • By Danlad99 5th Aug 18, 6:31 AM
    • 13Posts
    • 10Thanks
    Danlad99
    Is this worth appealing or just paying? Please help
    • #1
    • 5th Aug 18, 6:31 AM
    Is this worth appealing or just paying? Please help 5th Aug 18 at 6:31 AM
    Fine for 3 minutes in my car (no grace period?) , and signs so hidden, I was unable to spot them anyway.

    Spent an hour reading a similar case which lost, but eventually won in court, of a guy stopping for less than a minute and popla rejecting the appeal twice whilst withholding all data from the company and not divulging it. He spent hours and hours going through a lengthy process of writing and fact gathering and then even more hours compiling a pre court info thing, and the stress. Finally due to the parking enforcers solicitors accidently sending out a 'you have lost letter, pay up', I think it was just this reason and their sloppy inconsistencies and lack of detail that made it struck down.

    60 isn't worth my time of hours of work (I'm lazy lol), so my question is, do I have a chance from the expert guys on here, based on my particular case.... Or will popla likely reject

    Summary:
    ==========

    The driver of the car pulled into a side street to use greggs, with a friend nipping in, but didn't use their designated parking bit, instead, just parked on the main road of this side street which is the entrance to an industrial estate. Did not see any signs, and was technically in the grace period as the pcn is for 3 minutes.

    The left turn side street is at a right angle of a busy fast moving road, dual lane in parts, so you have to turn in very quickly.

    Photo below showing main road where people do close to 40mph, and the sharp left, to Greggs, and the industrial estate entrance:

    [I can't post links yet, so please copy into a browser page to view]

    photos.app.goo.gl/7M5A5hidfG1XCqgJ8

    As you turn in, the first sign is right on that corner, making it impossible to see or read as you'd have to stop half way on the main road and half way into the side road to read or notice it even. Making it very dangerous, and a given that you'd miss it. It is also covered slightly by bramble bush, inset within the bushed over fence, as opposed to a pole that you'd notice.

    Here is the sign, inset, on the corner, and barely visible even in a frozen frame photo let alone +30mph moving traffic.

    photos.app.goo.gl/HPWVuXAhtNroA1uHA

    The driver drove past the sign hidden and nestled against wired fencing (no stand out pole), bramble covered, inset, at the corner, eyes on the road whilst driving into the 90 degree left turn, and parked against the kerb here just past the corner (again no visible signs)

    photos.app.goo.gl/G8U17JLH5jkwwgaW8

    Here is the pcn photo evidence showing the same, along with the letter, in case it may in itself have some improprieties:

    photos.app.goo.gl/MkSntsdPSfuggSxD9

    Where the driver was parked against the kerb, this was the view from the car pictured below, again no visible signs, and nothing noticeable within the entire windscreen vista, no stopping sign pole, not even red no stopping road markings to prompt you to investigate further for hidden signage:

    photos.app.goo.gl/qrRSMsa2fF3xQJZm8

    It is only on driving further forward by ten meters past the bulk of bramble is the following sign seen, barely noticeable from car level and obscured by bramble. (I only noticed this after coming back to take these pics) :

    photos.app.goo.gl/mw7WrX1tkJu2xrLTA

    The only real notable sign in the whole area is that of Greggs, which can only be seen zoomed in, hence two pics. It's noteworthy because it gives the impression of 'more' parking further on, implying the area the car where it pulled up was ok. If a similar sign was anywhere in the entire vista from the car showing "no stopping" , the driver would not have stopped naturally, and instead parked several meters across into a bayed area for Greggs spaces, which most would presume is over spill for when it gets busy at rush lunchtimes. Photos:

    photos.app.goo.gl/GqqV7FeujjRjbTH19

    photos.app.goo.gl/2ujWC8rqSpE5Z8AU8

    And finally, here is the initial sign at corner, bramble taken away, close up so it can be read by you guys. But please bear in mind, it doesn't look clear like this in real life, being on the corner of a fence at a right-angle sharp left turn from a wide fast moving traffic road, makes it impossible to spot unless you come to a complete halt and extremely dangerously stop halfway between both roads whilst turning to look. Your eyes, due to driving, naturally are on the road, for safety, so by default you would miss it anyway.

    photos.app.goo.gl/KSYEZttWWiMZKoVV7

    Finally, so I do not omit anything, here is the Google street view of the corner, which actually doesn't even have the sign on, so it may be very recent, which should all the more mean clearer signage should be visible due to a sudden change from unrestricted parking to no stopping. You can also note the road name sign, which below it in small letters says private road. Again hard to see the when turning in, but either way, a private road doesn't automatically mean no stopping. It has most likely always been a private road.

    photos.app.goo.gl/G4ZLa8gLx6hwT9q6A


    So, with all information, what are my chances of getting this over-turned and how do I initially respond to the company to contest.

    I've noticed from several hours of reading cases (but stupidly not 'read this first' sticky, sorry), that you can come out with lots of technical lingo and paragraphs of specific acts, but popla don't seem to focused on that but rather genuine merit, and could happily consider a case written to them in layman's terms too (me lol) . They also don't seem as bothered about the grace period, especially if its clear you've not used that period to read the signage then chosen to leave, but instead have let someone nip to Greggs, even though it doesn't state anywhere what you have to do during that graceperiod. Either way, it doesn't so much apply to me, as had I have seen signs, I'd have read them.

    Finally the cases I read, perhaps by chance, seen to give more precedence to signage and such, rather than improprieties, reasonable fee, or correct up to date documents showing the company has authority by the land owner etc showing the area plotted out for example. Based on this I wonder if my argument would be considered.

    In light of all the above, any feedback on what the next move should be, or to just pay the fine would be greatly appreciated. There is 11 days left before the fine goes to 100. Do I write to the company?

    Many thanks
    D

    Last edited by Danlad99; 05-08-2018 at 8:35 AM.
Page 2
    • Danlad99
    • By Danlad99 7th Aug 18, 3:28 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Danlad99
    Thanks.

    Letter of appeal sent to PPC. I also noticed the signage does not explain what the APNR data will be used for, nor does the signage have planning permission from checking the local authority portal
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