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  • FIRST POST
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 4th Jun 18, 7:49 AM
    • 30Posts
    • 28Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    MCOL phase! Please help!
    • #1
    • 4th Jun 18, 7:49 AM
    MCOL phase! Please help! 4th Jun 18 at 7:49 AM
    Morning guys,

    In a bit of a pickle and don!!!8217;t know what to do.

    advice and help would be greatly appreciated!!

    Got a PCN dated march 17, I'm assuming for stopping at a bus stop near a roundabout, outside Robin Hood Airport Doncaster.

    I say assume because the only letter I ever received was an LCB. That may have been because the address they sent that letter to was an old address (that I hardly check). I did update my current address with DVLA when I paid tax for the new car I got months after this incident.

    My recollection of the event leading to the PCN in a nutshell
    What had happen was I was driving to the airport and my car (BMW 3 series) experienced power loss and I had no choice but to pull over( bus stop). This happened late hours of the night and I didn't see any signs. I tried to start it, it wouldn't start for a period of time. The mobile CCTV van clocked me and I got invoiced from VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES LTD.

    * I never came of the car
    * Never switched the engine off on purpose it just cut out.

    Found out AFTER I traded the car in( it was giving too much problems), that BMW were having an issue with that model for the "positive battery cable becoming damaged and impairing the power supply of the vehicle" according to BMW.

    I got evidence from BMW that my car was recalled for that issue but because I got rid, I never took it into BMW for the recall.

    Now what I did about the LBC
    I was advised to send this because I didn't have any previous letters from them:
    ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ***My Details***


    Date: 19/03/2018

    REQUEST FOR FURTHER AND BETTER PARTICULARS

    Dear Sirs

    Regarding your letter of ****** it is necessary to ask for more information regarding a purported debt to yourselves. Your letter is woefully insufficient for me to form an opinion of the legality of your claim. As such, please answer the following questions. Please respond, in full, within 14 days. Failure to respond will be recorded and shared during any future court proceedings.
    Standing to bring a Claim
    1. Please identify the landowner or occupier from whom you say you derive your authority to operate.
    2. Please confirm you can demonstrate a clear chain of authority from the landowner/occupier either by way of a written authority contract, deed or lease.!!!8232;(a) That this/these document(s) is/are in your possession or if not when they will be.!!!8232;(b) That such document(s) are available for inspection and if not when they will be.!!!8232;(c) That copies of the document(s) can be provided and that the originals will be available at court.
    I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
    Breach of Contract?
    3. What is the basis of the claimants claim?!!!8232;(a) An agreed contract?!!!8232;(b) A breach of contract?!!!8232;(c) Trespass?
    4. If 3.a or 3.b, what is your legal capacity to offer parking at the location? And how is that supposed contract created, by sign, by permit or by some other means?
    5. If 4.c what is your legal capacity if not the land-owner or lessee?
    I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
    The Contract
    6. If it is your case that the claim is based in contract and that such a contract was conveyed by way of signs displayed at the location please confirm the following:!!!8232;(a) That you are able to produce a copy of all the various signs at the location as they were on the date the PCN was issued, indicating the various text point sizes together with a map or plan showing where they are deployed on site.!!!8232;(b) A schedule of works/maintenance showing how and when such signs on-site were repaired, replaced and cleaned etc.!!!8232;

    (c) Full proof that the signage complied with the relevant Code of Practice on the date the PCN was issued.I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
    Evidence of a Contract, Breach of Contract or Trespass
    7. Please confirm whether it is your intention to adduce photographs and or video footage of the relevant event and:!!!8232;(a) That such photographs and/or footage is in your possession and if not when it will be?!!!8232;(b) That such photographs and/or footage are available for inspection and if not when they will be?!!!8232;(c) That copies of the photographs and/or footage can be provided and that all the originals will be available at court.
    I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
    Additional Costs claimed
    8. Please confirm that you have in your possession an analysis of the costs incurred that form the additional charges included in the claim and:!!!8232;(a) That copies of such an analysis and other attendant documents upon which the analysis is based are available for inspection and if not when they will be?!!!8232;(b) That copies can be provided of the analysis and attendant documents and that all original documents upon which you might seek to rely on in this respect will be available at court.
    Misuse of Personal Data
    9. As you have accessed my personal details via the DVLA, you will be aware that the "reasonable cause" provisions are on the basis that there is a lawful purpose to support the request. Please confirm you agree that if your case fails you will recompense me for damages amounting to 250 for the misuse of my personal data. Acceptance is by performance.
    Litigants in Person
    I will be defending any claim you intend to make as a Litigant in Person and I wish to alert you to the court's view on how you should approach any such claim. The Law Society has provided guidance and a copy is available for you if you do not already possess a copy.!
    TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU. SERVICE WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN EFFECTED ON THE SECOND BUSINESS DAY AFTER POSTING.

    Yours sincerely,


    My Name

    1. I emailed them my current address as I forgot to put it in that letter.
    2. NEVER GOT ANY RESPONSE in regards to that request.

    May 2018 I received a claim form address to the same OLD ADDRESS.

    So I called VCS ( I knew I should not have but I sent them a letter already so playing the ghost card was irrelevant) and explained that Im not willing to pay and explained I had evidence from BMW and that I had emailed them my current address. He said to acknowledge the form otherwise a default verdict can go in and send in a defence if they deem it legit they could discontinue.


    Now here I am deciding whether It's worth fighting or asking for a reduced in fee.

    I would like to defend it but was wondering if I have a chance at winning and would like help with a Defence if there was please.

    Got a couple days before the deadline to put inn an acknowledgment.
    Last edited by Wirelessoption; 04-06-2018 at 5:44 PM.
Page 3
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 19th Nov 18, 4:38 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    Which Court?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    please PM me and ill disclose the court, I'm paranoid.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Nov 18, 4:41 PM
    • 70,253 Posts
    • 82,860 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK, I don't do pm's (I suffered harassment and stalking the the nth degree - including in my own life, and he was reported to the Police - by a person met on forums who then presented himself to be something he wasn't and still sadly tries to hound me to this day because he is a lowlife individual).

    You can see why I do not trust personal contact on t'internet - not even pm's.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 19th Nov 18, 4:42 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    No you would not, and I BET the Claimant will serve an amended WS...
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    Well the claimant hasn't seen my WS, they've managed to served the court a 50 page one, but they couldn't send me a copy?? don't buy it.
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 19th Nov 18, 4:45 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    OK, I don't do pm's (I suffered harassment and stalking the the nth degree - including in my own life, and he was reported to the Police - by a person met on forums who then presented himself to be something he wasn't and still sadly tries to hound me to this day because he is a lowlife individual).

    You can see why I do not trust personal contact on t'internet - not even pm's.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Fair enough, I understand.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Nov 18, 4:47 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    And just to make it clear we are not talking about 'met' as in a relationship! I mean a person purporting to be a parking forumite and then who proved to have a completely warped mindset and agenda and still hounds me to this day, given every chance he gets.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 19th Nov 18, 4:48 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    I just can't believe the judge did that, when he saw that the claimant couldn't care any less about this case. they managed to spell my name wrong, not update my old address and not send any defence or WS to me.

    What should I do next? just wait with the same WS or post it on here for fine tuning and send the amended to the court and claimant?
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 19th Nov 18, 4:50 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    And just to make it clear we are not talking about 'met' as in a relationship! I mean a person purporting to be a parking forumite and then who proved to have a completely warped mindset and agenda and still hounds me to this day, given every chance he gets.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Im sorry to hear that CM, some people are just pure evil and should be behind bars!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Nov 18, 4:56 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    I would send the Judge a letter asking for the costs to be reserved, given the fact that you were able to prove your WS was sent, and the Claimant admitted to not updating their data.

    Say you are concerned that that the Claimant, knowing that the Judge felt ''the Defence was persuasive, and if he had to make a judgement today it would be in favour of the Defendant'' will now try to:

    - discontinue and leave you out of pocket for attending a hearing where you DID bring evidence that you had emailed the WS and evidence to them,

    or

    - ambush you with a 'revised' WS and new evidence to take advantage of the adjournment.

    State that you are alarmed by this and are now going to have to book more time off work and/or worry about this over Christmas, and need to know that your wasted costs are at least reserved and will be awarded against the Claimant if they now discontinue or flagrantly abuse the court process.

    Attach a copy of your costs schedule thus far.

    Send a copy of all of the above to the Claimant, not recorded. Proof of posting is free.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 19th Nov 18, 5:03 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    OK, thank you CM I was considering revising my WS and add bit more case transcripts that strengthen's my defence. In regards to the cost schedule I did make the judge aware of that and he did say it will carry over to the new hearing. crazily even the opponent advised me to at the end of the hearing.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Nov 18, 5:10 PM
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    • 82,860 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    My big concern would be you now getting a discontinuance, hence why it might be good to send something very soon to put your foot in the door for costs, especially as the Judge was minded to find in your favour and did mention that your costs would be reserved.

    Filing & serving a costs schedule now, would be a good idea.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 19th Nov 18, 5:18 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    Will do! I have one ready, i'll print it out and send it to both party.

    my concern is that this judge from today won't be available for the next hearing. so maybe the new one won't see my case the way this one did.
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 1st Jan 19, 5:08 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    Good evening all,

    Happy new year to all. I've got a question, my second hearing is coming up soon the first one got adjourned due to both parties "not exchanging witness statements". I've sent mine in AGAIN to the claimant but I haven't received theirs. How should I approach this next hearing and is there any chance of it getting adjourned again? I'm assuming they sent it to my old address despite us exchanging current addresses at the first hearing.

    many thanks.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Jan 19, 5:14 PM
    • 14,283 Posts
    • 16,233 Thanks
    KeithP
    I would be raising the issue of the Claimant's Witness Statement not being served on you as soon as you are in front of the judge.

    I would not even mention that they might've sent it to the wrong address - it isn't your job to guess what mistakes the Claimant may have made.

    Do not accept anything offered you in the waiting room.

    Do not allow the Claimant to get another adjournment.
    .
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 1st Jan 19, 5:19 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    Thanks Keith ,
    Thats exactly what I don't want happening! me getting another adjournment, would I have to research some laws about this? or its just a case of persuading the judge that another adjournment is unacceptable because of the claimant's lack of responsibility|?
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 11th Mar 19, 11:21 AM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    SUCCESS!
    Just got back from court with a win in the bag! The case got dismissed because the claimant didn't show.

    BIG BIG Thanks to everyone who helped and kept me positive. Ive gave the usher my cost schedule. hopefully I'll get back from Tavel and parking cost back.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Mar 19, 12:33 PM
    • 23,033 Posts
    • 36,582 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Well done, and as Coupon-mad would say, 'Another one bites the dust'

    Was the case dismissed entirely on the basis of the claimant not attending? Did the Judge comment on what your defence was arguing?

    Could you tell us the location of the court (town/city) and the name of the Judge please?
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 11th Mar 19, 7:20 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    to be honest I didn't even see the judge, the usher just told me that the judge has dismissed the case and I was free to go, all the necessary paperwork will be posted to me. I asked the usher if I can file for my expenses, he said yes and took my cost schedule. Do you think I should have done things differently? could this come back to bite me for not hearing it from the judge's mouth?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Mar 19, 11:22 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    No but you might not get your costs. But a win is a win!

    Could you tell us the location of the court (town/city) and the name of the Judge please?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Wirelessoption
    • By Wirelessoption 15th Apr 19, 12:21 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 28 Thanks
    Wirelessoption
    Coupon,

    I did end up getting my expenses but they claimant still havent paid to this date!! I will have to contact them to make sure they pay.

    The location of the court was County Court at Darlington.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Apr 19, 4:56 PM
    • 70,253 Posts
    • 82,860 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Well done - and if they do not pay your costs, ask the court to enforce the order.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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