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MCOL phase! Please help!
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Wirelessoption
Posts: 30 Forumite
Morning guys,
In a bit of a pickle and don!!!8217;t know what to do.
advice and help would be greatly appreciated!!
Got a PCN dated march 17, I'm assuming for stopping at a bus stop near a roundabout, outside Robin Hood Airport Doncaster.
I say assume because the only letter I ever received was an LCB. That may have been because the address they sent that letter to was an old address (that I hardly check). I did update my current address with DVLA when I paid tax for the new car I got months after this incident.
My recollection of the event leading to the PCN in a nutshell
What had happen was I was driving to the airport and my car (BMW 3 series) experienced power loss and I had no choice but to pull over( bus stop). This happened late hours of the night and I didn't see any signs. I tried to start it, it wouldn't start for a period of time. The mobile CCTV van clocked me and I got invoiced from VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES LTD.
* I never came of the car
* Never switched the engine off on purpose it just cut out.
Found out AFTER I traded the car in( it was giving too much problems), that BMW were having an issue with that model for the "positive battery cable becoming damaged and impairing the power supply of the vehicle" according to BMW.
I got evidence from BMW that my car was recalled for that issue but because I got rid, I never took it into BMW for the recall.
Now what I did about the LBC
I was advised to send this because I didn't have any previous letters from them:
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ***My Details***
Date: 19/03/2018
REQUEST FOR FURTHER AND BETTER PARTICULARS
Dear Sirs
Regarding your letter of ****** it is necessary to ask for more information regarding a purported debt to yourselves. Your letter is woefully insufficient for me to form an opinion of the legality of your claim. As such, please answer the following questions. Please respond, in full, within 14 days. Failure to respond will be recorded and shared during any future court proceedings.
Standing to bring a Claim
1. Please identify the landowner or occupier from whom you say you derive your authority to operate.
2. Please confirm you can demonstrate a clear chain of authority from the landowner/occupier either by way of a written authority contract, deed or lease.!!!8232;(a) That this/these document(s) is/are in your possession or if not when they will be.!!!8232;(b) That such document(s) are available for inspection and if not when they will be.!!!8232;(c) That copies of the document(s) can be provided and that the originals will be available at court.
I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
Breach of Contract?
3. What is the basis of the claimants claim?!!!8232;(a) An agreed contract?!!!8232;(b) A breach of contract?!!!8232;(c) Trespass?
4. If 3.a or 3.b, what is your legal capacity to offer parking at the location? And how is that supposed contract created, by sign, by permit or by some other means?
5. If 4.c what is your legal capacity if not the land-owner or lessee?
I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
The Contract
6. If it is your case that the claim is based in contract and that such a contract was conveyed by way of signs displayed at the location please confirm the following:!!!8232;(a) That you are able to produce a copy of all the various signs at the location as they were on the date the PCN was issued, indicating the various text point sizes together with a map or plan showing where they are deployed on site.!!!8232;(b) A schedule of works/maintenance showing how and when such signs on-site were repaired, replaced and cleaned etc.!!!8232;
(c) Full proof that the signage complied with the relevant Code of Practice on the date the PCN was issued.I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
Evidence of a Contract, Breach of Contract or Trespass
7. Please confirm whether it is your intention to adduce photographs and or video footage of the relevant event and:!!!8232;(a) That such photographs and/or footage is in your possession and if not when it will be?!!!8232;(b) That such photographs and/or footage are available for inspection and if not when they will be?!!!8232;(c) That copies of the photographs and/or footage can be provided and that all the originals will be available at court.
I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
Additional Costs claimed
8. Please confirm that you have in your possession an analysis of the costs incurred that form the additional charges included in the claim and:!!!8232;(a) That copies of such an analysis and other attendant documents upon which the analysis is based are available for inspection and if not when they will be?!!!8232;(b) That copies can be provided of the analysis and attendant documents and that all original documents upon which you might seek to rely on in this respect will be available at court.
Misuse of Personal Data
9. As you have accessed my personal details via the DVLA, you will be aware that the "reasonable cause" provisions are on the basis that there is a lawful purpose to support the request. Please confirm you agree that if your case fails you will recompense me for damages amounting to £250 for the misuse of my personal data. Acceptance is by performance.
Litigants in Person
I will be defending any claim you intend to make as a Litigant in Person and I wish to alert you to the court's view on how you should approach any such claim. The Law Society has provided guidance and a copy is available for you if you do not already possess a copy.!
TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU. SERVICE WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN EFFECTED ON THE SECOND BUSINESS DAY AFTER POSTING.
Yours sincerely,
My Name
1. I emailed them my current address as I forgot to put it in that letter.
2. NEVER GOT ANY RESPONSE in regards to that request.
May 2018 I received a claim form address to the same OLD ADDRESS.
So I called VCS ( I knew I should not have but I sent them a letter already so playing the ghost card was irrelevant) and explained that Im not willing to pay and explained I had evidence from BMW and that I had emailed them my current address. He said to acknowledge the form otherwise a default verdict can go in and send in a defence if they deem it legit they could discontinue.
Now here I am deciding whether It's worth fighting or asking for a reduced in fee.
I would like to defend it but was wondering if I have a chance at winning and would like help with a Defence if there was please.
Got a couple days before the deadline to put inn an acknowledgment.
In a bit of a pickle and don!!!8217;t know what to do.
advice and help would be greatly appreciated!!
Got a PCN dated march 17, I'm assuming for stopping at a bus stop near a roundabout, outside Robin Hood Airport Doncaster.
I say assume because the only letter I ever received was an LCB. That may have been because the address they sent that letter to was an old address (that I hardly check). I did update my current address with DVLA when I paid tax for the new car I got months after this incident.
My recollection of the event leading to the PCN in a nutshell
What had happen was I was driving to the airport and my car (BMW 3 series) experienced power loss and I had no choice but to pull over( bus stop). This happened late hours of the night and I didn't see any signs. I tried to start it, it wouldn't start for a period of time. The mobile CCTV van clocked me and I got invoiced from VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES LTD.
* I never came of the car
* Never switched the engine off on purpose it just cut out.
Found out AFTER I traded the car in( it was giving too much problems), that BMW were having an issue with that model for the "positive battery cable becoming damaged and impairing the power supply of the vehicle" according to BMW.
I got evidence from BMW that my car was recalled for that issue but because I got rid, I never took it into BMW for the recall.
Now what I did about the LBC
I was advised to send this because I didn't have any previous letters from them:
! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ***My Details***
Date: 19/03/2018
REQUEST FOR FURTHER AND BETTER PARTICULARS
Dear Sirs
Regarding your letter of ****** it is necessary to ask for more information regarding a purported debt to yourselves. Your letter is woefully insufficient for me to form an opinion of the legality of your claim. As such, please answer the following questions. Please respond, in full, within 14 days. Failure to respond will be recorded and shared during any future court proceedings.
Standing to bring a Claim
1. Please identify the landowner or occupier from whom you say you derive your authority to operate.
2. Please confirm you can demonstrate a clear chain of authority from the landowner/occupier either by way of a written authority contract, deed or lease.!!!8232;(a) That this/these document(s) is/are in your possession or if not when they will be.!!!8232;(b) That such document(s) are available for inspection and if not when they will be.!!!8232;(c) That copies of the document(s) can be provided and that the originals will be available at court.
I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
Breach of Contract?
3. What is the basis of the claimants claim?!!!8232;(a) An agreed contract?!!!8232;(b) A breach of contract?!!!8232;(c) Trespass?
4. If 3.a or 3.b, what is your legal capacity to offer parking at the location? And how is that supposed contract created, by sign, by permit or by some other means?
5. If 4.c what is your legal capacity if not the land-owner or lessee?
I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
The Contract
6. If it is your case that the claim is based in contract and that such a contract was conveyed by way of signs displayed at the location please confirm the following:!!!8232;(a) That you are able to produce a copy of all the various signs at the location as they were on the date the PCN was issued, indicating the various text point sizes together with a map or plan showing where they are deployed on site.!!!8232;(b) A schedule of works/maintenance showing how and when such signs on-site were repaired, replaced and cleaned etc.!!!8232;
(c) Full proof that the signage complied with the relevant Code of Practice on the date the PCN was issued.I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
Evidence of a Contract, Breach of Contract or Trespass
7. Please confirm whether it is your intention to adduce photographs and or video footage of the relevant event and:!!!8232;(a) That such photographs and/or footage is in your possession and if not when it will be?!!!8232;(b) That such photographs and/or footage are available for inspection and if not when they will be?!!!8232;(c) That copies of the photographs and/or footage can be provided and that all the originals will be available at court.
I require this information to help narrow down the issues in line with the Civil Procedure Rules overriding objectives. In addition, the DVLA requires you to have such information to support any request to their Keeper database. As such the information should be reasonably simple to access.
Additional Costs claimed
8. Please confirm that you have in your possession an analysis of the costs incurred that form the additional charges included in the claim and:!!!8232;(a) That copies of such an analysis and other attendant documents upon which the analysis is based are available for inspection and if not when they will be?!!!8232;(b) That copies can be provided of the analysis and attendant documents and that all original documents upon which you might seek to rely on in this respect will be available at court.
Misuse of Personal Data
9. As you have accessed my personal details via the DVLA, you will be aware that the "reasonable cause" provisions are on the basis that there is a lawful purpose to support the request. Please confirm you agree that if your case fails you will recompense me for damages amounting to £250 for the misuse of my personal data. Acceptance is by performance.
Litigants in Person
I will be defending any claim you intend to make as a Litigant in Person and I wish to alert you to the court's view on how you should approach any such claim. The Law Society has provided guidance and a copy is available for you if you do not already possess a copy.!
TAKE NOTICE THAT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO ANSWER THE ABOVE REQUEST WITHIN 14 DAYS OF SERVICE OF THE SAME UPON YOU. SERVICE WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN EFFECTED ON THE SECOND BUSINESS DAY AFTER POSTING.
Yours sincerely,
My Name
1. I emailed them my current address as I forgot to put it in that letter.
2. NEVER GOT ANY RESPONSE in regards to that request.
May 2018 I received a claim form address to the same OLD ADDRESS.
So I called VCS ( I knew I should not have but I sent them a letter already so playing the ghost card was irrelevant) and explained that Im not willing to pay and explained I had evidence from BMW and that I had emailed them my current address. He said to acknowledge the form otherwise a default verdict can go in and send in a defence if they deem it legit they could discontinue.
Now here I am deciding whether It's worth fighting or asking for a reduced in fee.
I would like to defend it but was wondering if I have a chance at winning and would like help with a Defence if there was please.
Got a couple days before the deadline to put inn an acknowledgment.
0
Comments
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They won't offer you any reduction.Now here I am deciding whether It's worth fighting or asking for a reduced in fee.
Get that in urgently, it provides you with an additional 14 days to submit a defence. If you fail to acknowledge you are staring down both barrels of a default judgment against you, with a cost order for the full amount shown in the PoC.Got a couple days before the deadline to put inn an acknowledgment.
Everyone has a 'chance at winning', but it depends on the quality of your defence, how well the claim against you is evidenced and presented, and what mood the Judge is in.I would like to defend it but was wondering if I have a chance at winning and would like help with a Defence if there was please.
How to deal with the full spectrum - from LBC to the actual hearing (and all points in between) - can be found in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2. Please spend some time understanding the process, then come up with a draft defence, which, hopefully, one of the tiny number of forum regulars who comment on defences (remember, we are not a legal advice forum) can give it a quick glance over. But all of this AFTER you have acknowledged service of the court papers served on you.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
You essentially have two pronigs
1) No contract was intended. You did not park, you stopped due to a failure inthe vehicle.
2) Even if they can prove a contrct was formed by conduct, it was IMMEDIATELY frustr\ted becasue the vehicle stopped not due to your actions but something outside of your control, of which you have posiotive evidence - not jus the ltetrer but BBC Watchdog for the last 3 weeks!0 -
Thanks for the replies guys.
I've posted my acknowledgement letter today first class sign for and took a photo of it.
I'm ready to write a defence but I don't know how to tailor the templates for my specific case. I don't know what evidence/or how to word it.
A little guidance would be much appreciated
Thanks0 -
1. Read a range of defences from the recent past (2018 only) using the links in the sticky and the forum search engine. This will give you ideas on how a defence is set out, what it generally contains and the detail needed.
2. Do a forum search on 'VCS Defence' to bring up any VCS cases.HOW TO USE THE FORUM SEARCH FUNCTION:
Use the Forum Jump button (one near the top and one near bottom of this page) to get back to the forum thread list. Just above the threads, on the right, is a heading along a line, next to forum tools, called 'Search this Forum'. Put your key word(s) in and change the default search from 'Show Threads' to 'Show Posts'.
3. Find examples from the links and your research that have some resonance with your case (not the specifics, just some degree of context). From these examples, copy and paste relevant sections together, go through them carefully, proof-read and generally tidy up then let us see your first draft for critique.
Please do not blindly 'copy and dump' in the expectation that someone here will be eagerly waiting and overjoyed to plough through it and happily reassemble and fine tune it all for you. It won't happen. You put in the leg work for your problem and the forum will provide 'light-touch' advice and guidance to get you to the finish line in reasonable shape.
HTH.
PS - please switch off the Smart Punctuation function on your iOS device to rid your posts of all the gobbledygook.
Go to 'Settings' > 'General' > 'Keyboard' > 'Smart Punctuation' and flick the switch off.
Switching off seems to have no detrimental affect on any other use of the keyboard.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
please can you edit this out
!!!8217;
it makes your post hard to readFrom the Plain Language Commission:
"The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"0 -
Also OP, you need to remove the VCS reference number from your opening post. It is enough to uniquely identify you and your incident to the private parking companies.0
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Why?I've posted my acknowledgement letter today first class sign for and took a photo of it.
The NEWBIES thread shows you how to do this online (DEAD EASY PICTURES), and NO-ONE sends bits of paper, signed-for!
You appear not to have read the clear guidance in the second post of the NEWBIES thread, if you posted the AOS.A little guidance would be much appreciated
I really really hope you didn't write anything, not even 'to follow' in the defence box?PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
I posted it because I tried to do it online but I couldn't login for some reason.
Can I still do it online even though I send it by paper? and no I didn't write anything in the defence box I only sent off the acknowledgment part not the defence part....please don't tell me I needed to?
I am in shambles. im so stressed out about this I can't think straight. I really don't want to lose this case and affect my credit score.0 -
Why do you think losing the case will affect your credit score?I really don't want to lose this case and affect my credit score.Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
It was my understanding that even if you pay the money you owe in full within a month there would still be some sort of mark on your credit file.
I've tried to login to my MCOL account using the claim no. and defence pack password but its saying the claim no. or password is incorrect...but It isn't because I typed it in correctly and acknowledge
the case sensitive letters.0
This discussion has been closed.
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