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  • FIRST POST
    • LocoLoco
    • By LocoLoco 10th Apr 18, 11:43 AM
    • 236Posts
    • 327Thanks
    LocoLoco
    Question re PIP and Eating and Drinking
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 18, 11:43 AM
    Question re PIP and Eating and Drinking 10th Apr 18 at 11:43 AM
    Hello all, I'm filling in my son's PIP form and just wondered if anyone can answer this: it says on the descriptors 'needs prompting to take nutrition'; do they mean prompting for every mouthful and every sip or just some prompting?
    My son can and does eat and drink unaided but needs to be told it's time to eat and sometimes needs to be reminded to keep eating whilst he's doing it. Drinking is similar; he needs drinks to be put in front of him but will usually drink it once it's there although some days will need reminding. If he's had a seizure or is especially tired he will need to be prompted frequently but those days are rare now (thankfully).
    Can anyone advise? Not trying to fiddle the system or claim he has problems he doesn't but am trying to work out the number of points he may get and don't want to fill the form with unnecessary information that won't be relevant to the claim anyway
    Many thanks in advance
Page 1
    • Ames
    • By Ames 10th Apr 18, 12:01 PM
    • 17,729 Posts
    • 31,347 Thanks
    Ames
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:01 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:01 PM
    Yes, in my opinion what you describe does count as prompting.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
    • w06
    • By w06 10th Apr 18, 12:32 PM
    • 763 Posts
    • 1,103 Thanks
    w06
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:32 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:32 PM
    It sounds like prompting to me (I'm no expert though).

    When I filled in my PIP form, where there were things that I wasn't sure about I chose the box that seemed most appropriate and then explained - as you have above - next to it. And then again explained at the face to face.
    • LocoLoco
    • By LocoLoco 10th Apr 18, 12:32 PM
    • 236 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    LocoLoco
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:32 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:32 PM
    Yes, in my opinion what you describe does count as prompting.
    Originally posted by Ames
    That's very helpful, Ames, thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly
    • LocoLoco
    • By LocoLoco 10th Apr 18, 12:35 PM
    • 236 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    LocoLoco
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:35 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:35 PM
    It sounds like prompting to me (I'm no expert though).

    When I filled in my PIP form, where there were things that I wasn't sure about I chose the box that seemed most appropriate and then explained - as you have above - next to it. And then again explained at the face to face.
    Originally posted by w06
    Brilliant, thank you, W06, yes, I'm doing the same - ticking the one that seems the closest fit, explaining it in detail in the next bit and then linking it to whichever report it's mentioned in - I've gone into overdrive and numbered all the reports so I can write "Report 3, page 2, paragraph 6" just so there's no confusion! Lol, lot of work but if we can get the right award first time it will be worth it

    Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 10th Apr 18, 12:37 PM
    • 12,075 Posts
    • 13,917 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:37 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:37 PM
    I think this is a great help when completing the PIP form.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form/
    • LocoLoco
    • By LocoLoco 10th Apr 18, 1:43 PM
    • 236 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    LocoLoco
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:43 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:43 PM
    Thank you, pmlindyloo, I will have a look through this as well, many thanks
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 10th Apr 18, 6:35 PM
    • 2,639 Posts
    • 3,059 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 6:35 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 6:35 PM
    Also this may be useful:
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/665635/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
    It details how assessors should interpret the descriptors.
    • beanielou
    • By beanielou 10th Apr 18, 9:50 PM
    • 58,966 Posts
    • 244,931 Thanks
    beanielou
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:50 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:50 PM
    Great advice there for you
    Lou~ Debt free Wanabe No 55 DF 03/03/14.
    **Credit card debt free 30/06/10~** **Weight loss 2 stone 12 lbs **

    "A large income is the best recipe for happiness I ever heard of" Jane Austen in Mansfield Park.
    ***Fall down seven times,stand up eight*** ~~Japanese proverb.
    It starts with you, it starts from now. *** It is ok to be me.***
    ***Keep plodding***
    Out of debt, out of danger. ***Be the difference.***
    • LocoLoco
    • By LocoLoco 11th Apr 18, 10:21 AM
    • 236 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    LocoLoco
    That's great, Alice Holt, thank you
    • LocoLoco
    • By LocoLoco 11th Apr 18, 10:22 AM
    • 236 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    LocoLoco
    Great advice there for you
    Originally posted by beanielou
    Yes, I agree!
    • Danday
    • By Danday 11th Apr 18, 11:33 AM
    • 412 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    Danday
    I have had a quick look through that document and hand on heart can say that in reality, and in my experience of three face to face assessments for PIP over the past 5 years, what they are supposed to do has never happened in any of my assessments.
    The boxes ticked on the claim form have been ignored & disregarded completely, I was never encouraged or asked to enter into a dialogue with the assessor during the assessment, the questions asked were loaded in that only a yes/no answer was required from me, a physical examination said to have taken place never happened. And if what was said to have happened and what was reported that I said had actually happened it would have taken a lot longer than the 20mins or so that the assessment took.
    The trouble is proving that the assessor has lied and also proving that I wasn't given the opportunity to explain my difficulties in any detail.
    • w06
    • By w06 11th Apr 18, 11:37 AM
    • 763 Posts
    • 1,103 Thanks
    w06
    yawn

    in contrast to the previous poster's invariably horrific experience in every aspect of the system, my PIP face to face assessment was a dialogue with a professional trained to draw out the salient points, she allowed me to explain and showed me what she was typing into the report for questions that had needed clarifying
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 11th Apr 18, 11:55 AM
    • 2,456 Posts
    • 3,468 Thanks
    NeilCr
    "I think newcomers to this forum need to bear in mind that this is a public site on which anyone can post. You can't assume information is trustworthy, indeed some posters are known to disrupt, post disinformation, and tell tall stories.

    I would caution newcomers to be wary of any advice supplied that doesn't contain a link to an authoritative site. Such sites include adviceguide, entitled to, turn2us, revenuebenefits.
    Accredited benefit advice is available from local advice agencies such as Citizens Advice.

    Please don't take horror stories about benefit assessments, appeals etc at face value. There are posters on here who whose aim seems to be to alarm, frighten, and generally dissuade OP's from pursuing sensible actions to claim / regain the right benefits.

    Harmful and misleading posters are easily identified by the reaction to their posts
    • LocoLoco
    • By LocoLoco 11th Apr 18, 12:04 PM
    • 236 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    LocoLoco
    Thank you all, it's okay, I'm aware there are good and bad experiences and I've been doing this for my son all his life (sixteen years so far!). I've already been through appeals and mandatory considerations for him over the years, we're currently gearing up to appeal his EHCP, I have multiple problems with NHS doctors who don't appear to be able to speak to each other to formulate a plan (my son has complex needs so is seen at different hospitals for different things) and don't even get me started on social services The PIP shouldn't be a problem really; even at the lowest number of points by my reckoning he should get 28 for care so we should be okay; I just didn't want to spend a lot of time explaining aspects of his care that aren't really relevant. If he is turned down or given a lower rate we'll appeal; I'm used to doing it and it is tiring but sometimes it's just what you have to do.

    The advice and support has been very helpful and I'm very grateful; the form is filled in, I just need to photocopy all the reports to send with it, copy the form for my own records and then get it all sent off You've all been a big help, thank you
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 11th Apr 18, 1:17 PM
    • 3,992 Posts
    • 3,812 Thanks
    poppy12345
    I would take what it states in post #12 with a huge pinch of salt!

    I've always explained everything in detail at all my assessments i had and there's never been a problem. My daughter has complex needs and needs a lot of support every day. She has a Support Worker and a EHCP. I first claimed PIP for her last year and during her assessment i explained everything in so much detail it lasted over an hour.

    She was marked down on 2 things which did contradict what the report actually said but as her score was 16 for daily living and 12 for mobility, naturally i didn't question it. Good luck with your sons claim.
    • Danday
    • By Danday 11th Apr 18, 1:45 PM
    • 412 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    Danday
    I would take what it states in post #12 with a huge pinch of salt!

    I've always explained everything in detail at all my assessments i had and there's never been a problem. My daughter has complex needs and needs a lot of support every day. She has a Support Worker and a EHCP. I first claimed PIP for her last year and during her assessment i explained everything in so much detail it lasted over an hour.

    She was marked down on 2 things which did contradict what the report actually said but as her score was 16 for daily living and 12 for mobility, naturally i didn't question it. Good luck with your sons claim.
    Originally posted by poppy12345

    Might I suggest that not everybody has the same good fortune as you have had with how their PIP face to face assessments are carried out.
    Please have a read of this very recent submission to the government on this subject. There really are some horror stories.
    I applaud everything that is being suggested, but unfortunately it is a matter of course that the DWP will refuse to implement them as they have with suggestions from previous reviews.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmworpen/829/82902.htm

    Should all of these suggestions actually become the norm with the DWP agreeing to them, then, we may see fairness entering the PIP system,.
    • LocoLoco
    • By LocoLoco 11th Apr 18, 2:17 PM
    • 236 Posts
    • 327 Thanks
    LocoLoco
    Might I suggest that not everybody has the same good fortune as you have had with how their PIP face to face assessments are carried out.
    Please have a read of this very recent submission to the government on this subject. There really are some horror stories.
    I applaud everything that is being suggested, but unfortunately it is a matter of course that the DWP will refuse to implement them as they have with suggestions from previous reviews.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmworpen/829/82902.htm

    Should all of these suggestions actually become the norm with the DWP agreeing to them, then, we may see fairness entering the PIP system,.
    Originally posted by Danday
    I think everyone is aware that there are good and bad situations. We've had numerous incidents across every agency - health, education, social care and benefits - where staff have been dreadful, lies told, assessments not carried out properly or full of inaccurate information, and so on. We've equally had good experiences, particularly at appeals where I have usually felt that the judges have been fair and honest and given me a chance to speak on my son's behalf.

    I think what people are getting at is that each experience will be different and, as no-one can predict or control what sort of person they will encounter or experience they will have, it's best to work along the guidelines or legislation if possible so that at least you know what ought to happen, which in turn (in my experience) makes it easier to appeal, because you can go through the specific incidents and show where they don't comply with the relevant bits of legislation.

    It is a lot of work and I've had enough bad experiences to know how soul destroying it can be, but I think the point people are trying to make is that giving out bad experience stories (when that isn't what has been asked for) might put an inexperienced person off applying at all. Personally I understand why people don't bother sometimes but for us (and many like us) we've no other source of income at present so it's important for me to try to get what my son is entitled to without spending hours writing up information that won't be taken into consideration anyway
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 11th Apr 18, 2:53 PM
    • 3,992 Posts
    • 3,812 Thanks
    poppy12345
    Might I suggest that not everybody has the same good fortune as you have had with how their PIP face to face assessments are carried out.
    Please have a read of this very recent submission to the government on this subject. There really are some horror stories.
    I applaud everything that is being suggested, but unfortunately it is a matter of course that the DWP will refuse to implement them as they have with suggestions from previous reviews.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmworpen/829/82902.htm

    Should all of these suggestions actually become the norm with the DWP agreeing to them, then, we may see fairness entering the PIP system,.
    Originally posted by Danday
    I don't need advice from you thank you. We all know by now how your stories and contradictions drag on to be a never ending story.

    I will also remind you that what ever people read on the internet will mostly be bad stories. If someone has an award they're happy with then we don't hear their story because they have no questions to ask.....
    • Danday
    • By Danday 12th Apr 18, 6:05 PM
    • 412 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    Danday
    I don't need advice from you thank you. We all know by now how your stories and contradictions drag on to be a never ending story.

    I will also remind you that what ever people read on the internet will mostly be bad stories. If someone has an award they're happy with then we don't hear their story because they have no questions to ask.....
    Originally posted by poppy12345
    But there must be something very wrong with the ESA/PIP system for the committee to make these suggestions. You only need to look at the number of people that have given their own evidence.
    You were lucky, many others weren't

    670,000 PIP claimants 22% of all claimants;have submitted an MR request since 2013, with 187,000 of those going on to appeal.
    That works out that there have been 134,000 applicants that had to ask for a MR every year for the past 5 years that's 22% of all claimants in each year.

    Put it another way - the DWP managed to get the wrong decision in 22%
    Last edited by Danday; 12-04-2018 at 6:14 PM.
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