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  • FIRST POST
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 7th Apr 18, 8:25 AM
    • 27Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Pianothing
    DRO and preferential payments rules
    • #1
    • 7th Apr 18, 8:25 AM
    DRO and preferential payments rules 7th Apr 18 at 8:25 AM
    Hi

    I'm at my wits end. My debts are out of control. I've taken out payday loans and high interest credit cards to pay living expenses, I've got two enforcement officers and and a High Court Enforcement Officer banging on the door. I finally spoke to the CAB about getting some help and support and have an appointment on Monday. The advisor I spoke to is one that can do DROs and he said that based on my budget I qualify for a DRO.

    My problem is, I can't demonstrate I haven't made preferential payments. I suffer with anxiety so when I get a bailiffs visit, even though it's only a letter through the door, I pay them something in the hope that they'll leave me alone for a little while. The payday loans are on a continuous payment authority so they've been taken from my account.

    Are the insolvency service really strict about preferential payments? I can't pay my bills and would have so little money left that I couldn't pay an iva. I'm terrified I'll be told I need to declare myself bankrupt as I could loose my home and my job and I don't have the upfront payment to go down that route.

    I'm stuck in a complete mess with what seems like no sensible solution.

    Has anyone else been in this situation and still managed to get a DRO?

    Thank you for reading.
Page 1
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 7th Apr 18, 4:44 PM
    • 15,304 Posts
    • 14,394 Thanks
    sourcrates
    • #2
    • 7th Apr 18, 4:44 PM
    • #2
    • 7th Apr 18, 4:44 PM
    What debts are the HCEO`s chasing you for ?

    Are you behind with rent or council tax, or something of that nature ?

    Are you confusing bailiffs with debt collectors ?

    You don't need to demonstrate preferential treatment, they only ask, you have just been paying bills when due, so simply say no.

    If you qualify for a DRO, it can be set up very quickly, and will take away the worry of your unsecured debts at any rate.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 7th Apr 18, 7:47 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    • #3
    • 7th Apr 18, 7:47 PM
    • #3
    • 7th Apr 18, 7:47 PM
    Two bailiffs for council tax and one high court enforcement agent for a can I missed two payments on. I broke my pelvis and was hospitalised, then bed bound, then in a wheelchair. I emailed the creditor to tell them I needed to reduce my payments temporarily. They were really unhelpful and escalated it to the High Court. The hceo has already stiffed me with 977.30 of charges which has put the debt back to what it was at the time of the ccj. I'm at the end of my rope with everything. It's all too much for me to cope with mentally and I'm getting depressed.
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 7th Apr 18, 8:20 PM
    • 3,369 Posts
    • 1,752 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #4
    • 7th Apr 18, 8:20 PM
    • #4
    • 7th Apr 18, 8:20 PM
    The payday loans are on a continuous payment authority so they've been taken from my account.

    Are the insolvency service really strict about preferential payments? I can't pay my bills and would have so little money left that I couldn't pay an iva. I'm terrified I'll be told I need to declare myself bankrupt as I could loose my home and my job and I don't have the upfront payment to go down that route.

    Has anyone else been in this situation and still managed to get a DRO?

    Thank you for reading.
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    Have you tried contacting the payday loan companies and asking for them to stop the CPA - it's either them or the bank you are with you'll need to speak to. It does happen I can recall a year ago pay date had changed slightly as there was a 31st in the particular month, on calling the loan provider their response was to cancel the CPA much to my surprise at the time.

    Something about your post makes me want to ask if you are a home owner?

    There is a lot to be said about situations where you make 'payments under duress' please don't lose sight of this.

    I would like to assure you I had a DRO granted in 2012 when months earlier and my situation different I'd managed to pay a 200 credit card off, although I could prove all the way through I'd been in dire straits - extensive use of payday loans was a big part of this.

    I even paid the DRO fee with what I was refunded back from one of these companies. It was the best use of the 95 obtained through the court process ironically. Again not challenged.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 7th Apr 18, 8:41 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    • #5
    • 7th Apr 18, 8:41 PM
    • #5
    • 7th Apr 18, 8:41 PM
    No. I rent my house. My rent is always paid. Never been in arrears. Hence I've just signed for a 4th year in my house.

    I just want this all to be over so I can stop living in fear of the phone ringing, the post being delivered and a knock on the door. I feel like a prisoner in my own home.

    Thank you for the advice about the CPA. I'll phone the bank tomorrow to get it cancelled.
    • MalMonroe
    • By MalMonroe 7th Apr 18, 9:11 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    MalMonroe
    • #6
    • 7th Apr 18, 9:11 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Apr 18, 9:11 PM
    I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this. I know from personal experience how awful it is. I contacted StepChange by phone (0800 138 1111) and they were able to put my mind at ease immediately. Worse for you as you've had such health problems. Be aware that you do have to pay for a DRO, it was 90 in 2013 when I did mine. But the CAB will be able to tell you all about it and the good thing is that once your debts are being sorted by one of the authorised agencies, creditors should start taking notice and stop sending people to harass you. The advice StepChange gave me was to offer each creditor 1 per month until the DRO was granted. You've taken the first step now, anyway and you're going to get things sorted so try not to worry, you're on the home stretch now.
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 7th Apr 18, 9:18 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    • #7
    • 7th Apr 18, 9:18 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Apr 18, 9:18 PM
    Yes. It's still 90. I have a lovely friend that has offered to pay half for me and I've got the other half tucked away in my savings account ... first time I've ever put anything in it!

    Thank you for your kind words. I feel better knowing I'm not alone. !!!9786;
    • ToxtethO'Grady
    • By ToxtethO'Grady 7th Apr 18, 11:27 PM
    • 129 Posts
    • 70 Thanks
    ToxtethO'Grady
    • #8
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:27 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:27 PM
    Please don't worry about the preferential payments to bailiffs or HCEOs, the payday loans for living expenses, the Insolvency Service will understand based on your health and situation.

    Just a short statement about it from your intermediary should cover that...and IF the Insolvency Service ask for proof any letters/receipts from the bailiffs/HCEO and any evidence of your health such as prescription would cover it

    Using credit such as payday loans is covered as well as you are using it for living expenses and paying them all equally from what you said in your post. Preferential payments are when, for instance, you paid one creditor 600 and all the rest of your creditors 1, that's to their detriment so they can then moan to the Insolvency Service.

    Make the payday loan companies and the HCEO aware you have priority arrears - council tax office should be contacted to make them aware of your health - ask them to bring the warrant back and do it in writing with any medical evidence you have. CAB should be able to help you with any letters. You can still pay the council tax direct to the council as well, just set it up as a standing order, that way they have more reason to bring the warrant back.

    That will give you the time to get your DRO ready and submitted.

    Good luck!
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 8th Apr 18, 12:47 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    • #9
    • 8th Apr 18, 12:47 AM
    • #9
    • 8th Apr 18, 12:47 AM
    Thank you. One of the council tax bills is for the area I live in and I've paid the vast majority of it, only 185 left and I suspect that is only fees. The other bailiff is for a bill about 4 years old and they only recently started visiting, I contacted them and explained about my pelvis and they were actually ok about it but said they have to keep visiting. The HCEO is for a trade debt. As I said, I contacted the creditor before it even went to the High Court and they they were completely unhelpful, told me when I was still in hospital that I needed to apply to the court to get my payments reduced. I couldn't do that so I tried to keep up the payments, that's how I eventually started with the payday loans. So then I missed two payments and got a High Court Writ. I've tried to deal with the HCEO but they are completely unhelpful. I believe they have actually breached their guidance as they didn't give me 7 days clear notice of their first visit and, even though I advised them that I'm classed as vulnerable, they haven't considered that in their dealings with me. I'm getting further advice about complaining about their conduct. Unfortunately the HCEO concerned is the chairman if the High Court Enforcement Officers Association ... And that's who I'm supposed to complain to ... like I say, I need to get some more advice. I'm really fed up with their unregulated bully boy tactics and need to say my bit ... once I get my brave pants on.

    I've got plenty of evidence of payments to the various enforcers through my bank statements and I have copies of all my fit notes to evidence my broken pelvis. My anxiety issues I can get a letter from my doctor if necessary.

    I wish Monday would hurry up and come round.
    • ToxtethO'Grady
    • By ToxtethO'Grady 8th Apr 18, 2:04 AM
    • 129 Posts
    • 70 Thanks
    ToxtethO'Grady
    High Court Enforcement can't enter domestic premises the same as bailiffs and have to take notice of vulnerability. You should film them on your phone and record calls you receive, tell that you are at the start of any call as they can say that anything before you've told them cannot be used.

    Same rules apply and you can fill in an N244 to get the writ back to court (stay of execution) , if you are on benefits the costs are covered, https://www.gov.uk/get-help-with-court-fees

    Once you have the writ back to court and show you have no means to pay, are vulnerable, have priority arrears it goes back to county court and you fill in an N245 and offer what you can afford, council tax is a priority even if old/different areas so you offer them a token payment.

    You can raise your concerns to the high court enforcemetn company first, then go to High Court Enforcement Officers Association if they don't resolve your complaint, doesn't matter if he's the chairman he shouldn't be involved in any complaints procedure at all. If you are still concerned also contact your MP and the media when you raise your complaint
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 8th Apr 18, 9:25 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    I explored the stay of execution and varying the order. The court advised me to do both at the same time. The fees for that are 305. I don't have that much money without leaving several expenses such as utility bills and travel expenses unpaid. Unfortunately I don't qualify for any help as I earn to much. I can't even apply for partial assistance. I live in the commuter belt for London and I pay more money in rent each month than the 1045 threshold for assistance with fees.

    I fully intend to complain about the HCEO. Whose name isn't on the HCEO register strangely .... only the name of the company he works for. I think that's against the rules too. I think that a HC Writ has to be pursued by a registered HCEO.

    This is why I so desperately need support. It's just too much for me to process all at once. I'm hopeful that the CAB will hold my hand throughout the whole sorry business.

    The HCE company is owned by the chairman of the HCEO Association. I've done lots of research as I'm not sleeping properly.

    I hope that once I've seen the CAB the burden will be lifted a bit and there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

    You are a font of knowledge. Have you been through his stuff yourself?
    • ToxtethO'Grady
    • By ToxtethO'Grady 8th Apr 18, 1:29 PM
    • 129 Posts
    • 70 Thanks
    ToxtethO'Grady
    The CAB will help and I hope you feel that weight being lifted soon.

    Been through it when I was younger with the Poll Tax as a 20 year old, living in my first flat on my own, lost my job, benefits stopped because I 'walked out' after being assaulted by my boss.

    I didn't get angry I got knowledgeable managed to get the bailiffs to be worried when I phoned their office,got all my housing benefit paid back, backdated benefits, got a hardship payment from DWP as well...and the best thing of all because it took so long I got evicted! Left hand/right hand stuff with the council...thought I was on top of it but missed the notice of seeking possession

    So I ended up homeless and eventually back in my own place and worked in the homeless sector for nearly a decade, got into advice, then youth offending, then debt advice now have a legal role.

    I can empathise with all the letters/calls/emails/people at your door and trying to juggle all those balls, just take it step by step, it's hard I know but if somewhere is closed what can you do?
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 8th Apr 18, 3:27 PM
    • 15,304 Posts
    • 14,394 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Great advice above from Toxteth.

    Just another little thing you can do with regards to the payday loans.

    As well as phoning the bank to cancel the CPA`s, you should also tell them your bank card has been lost (ring the number on the back of the card for this one).

    Banks are still not 100% au faire with canceling CPA`s, so as an added layer of protection, reporting your bank card lost/stolen will cancel that card completely, the pay day loan companies will not be able to use those details to debt your account.

    You will get a new card in a few days, with a new number on it, if you think about it, it makes sense, if you enter a digit incorrectly when making a purchase, online say, then the transaction is rejected, canceling the card has the same effect.

    Also, and i know you have a lot on your plate at the moment, but check out this link here, you may find it useful :

    https://debtcamel.co.uk/payday-loan-refunds/
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 8th Apr 18, 9:06 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    Thank you all for the fabulous support and advice. I don't feel quite so desperate now knowing that others have been through hell and come out the other side.

    I'm praying for a positive meeting tomorrow. Things can't get much worse I guess!

    One step at a time. Firstly I just want the bailiffs and HCEO off my case. They're making my life miserable. Hopefully I'll get some help with that.
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 9th Apr 18, 9:08 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    So today I went for my appointment at the CAB. It was really positive but I am really close to the 20k limit! How did things build up to that much????
    I took all my paperwork with me so the advisor said he can get the application ready by 23rd April.
    I've signed so they can get my credit report. It wasn't anywhere near as intrusive as I thought it would be and I wasn't told I've got to rein in my spending on food to 50p a day.
    I just hope now that once I sign and pay that it gets approved. Does anyone know what percentage of DROs are rejected?
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 9th Apr 18, 11:28 PM
    • 15,304 Posts
    • 14,394 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Only a very small amount get rejected, usually if your intermediary submits the application, it will be approved.

    Basically if you meet the qualifying criteria you are accepted, unless some major issue comes to light.

    They will iron out everything prior to submission, if it was going to be rejected, they would not submit it.

    So dont worry, it will be fine.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 9th Apr 18, 11:45 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    I made sure I listed everything, even if I couldn't find paperwork or details of what I owe. The advisor said I had been very thorough and that he will be interested to see just exactly what is on my credit file. I use clear score and I know a lot of what I listed isn't on there. If something isn't on my credit file , will it be omitted from the DRO does anyone know?
    • MalMonroe
    • By MalMonroe 10th Apr 18, 12:05 AM
    • 70 Posts
    • 62 Thanks
    MalMonroe
    Hi, it won't be omitted because you say you have all the necessary paperwork, which you've actually shown to the CAB advisor. In my experience, Clearscore (which is run by Equifax) is rubbish - if you use Experian or Equifax you will get better results. Experian is available through this site, the MSE credit club. Your advisor will handle things for you, and if they need to clarify anything, will surely get back to you. Now you can (hopefully) start to relax a little bit. Main thing is to try not to worry, the worst bit's over. There's a way to go yet but you've started.
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 10th Apr 18, 12:20 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    Yes, I've signed paperwork to get them from Experian and Equifax.

    I don't think I will relax until it's approved and the letters and phone calls get less and less and the visits from the bailiffs stop.

    I can't get my head around the HCEO not being able to harass me anymore. It seems to good to be true.

    I do feel a bit better today but I think the big sigh of relief is a way off yet. Xx
    • Twubble
    • By Twubble 10th Apr 18, 9:18 AM
    • 58 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Twubble
    Hi.
    I listed a debt which didn't show on my credit file. It's not a problem. A lot of things won't show up on there.

    My DRO was approved 3 weeks ago tomorrow, and the relief is mind blowing. The end bit all happens so quickly. The Intermediaries don't send in the application if they don't think you'll get it. It really will soon be all over for you. I still can't believe I've got mine, let alone it's been going for 3 weeks!

    Good luck.
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