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  • FIRST POST
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 22nd Mar 18, 12:51 AM
    • 29Posts
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    Fridge_Emptier
    CCJ set aside
    • #1
    • 22nd Mar 18, 12:51 AM
    CCJ set aside 22nd Mar 18 at 12:51 AM
    Hello everyone.

    I've just discovered I have an active CCJ registered a couple of years ago at County Court Business Centre.
    I spoke with the claimant and now know the parking circumstances it relates to.
    I was at a retail outlet 5 years ago (!), knew I would overstay the maximum 'free' parking period and told the store's staff.
    Assured all would be fine (handed over VRN for staff to enter into their don't-fine-this-driver database) I did indeed overstay the free period.
    Some weeks later I received a PCN for this.
    I then contacted the retail outlet who were apologetic and said it would be sorted - 'leave it to me'.
    That was the last of it.

    I moved house several months afterwards and redirected post for 6 months, meaning I was able to receive any further comms from the claimant for about 15 months after the PCN arrived; but received nothing.
    PCN was well and truly forgotten by me.

    So, two points:
    - I took steps to resolve the issue immediately upon receiving the PCN (contacted retailer).
    - I never received any further correspondence

    A third point should be mentioned, that the vehicle was not owned by me or registered to me - I was borrowing it. Keeper had the PCN amended with my details.

    What are your thoughts, please?
    Was intending on a set aside based on incorrect address used.
    I've read this post: (sorry, as a new user I cannot post URLs) 4816822#2 and feel my circumstances are covered in the listed posts.
    I just wanted to see if I've missed anything as the regulars on here are very knowledgeable and I'd be silly not to seek your advice.

    Many thanks in advance
    :-)
Page 1
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Mar 18, 12:56 AM
    • 61,584 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #2
    • 22nd Mar 18, 12:56 AM
    • #2
    • 22nd Mar 18, 12:56 AM
    Which parking firm?

    See post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQS thread (top of this forum) about set asides. What to do & how. Costs you £255 but you can sometimes get the Judge to order that refunded from the likes of Civil Enforcement for completely meritless claims. Was it them, or Parking Eye maybe?

    Also search the forum for 'set aside' with the name of the parking firm in the search too, to see examples that have gone through this and got the CCJ wiped and never had to pay the 'fine'.

    People should start suing retailers for causing this loss, distress and damaged credit rating. It could put retailers off parking firms if they were bombarded with £500+ claims.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 22nd Mar 18, 8:08 AM
    • 10,002 Posts
    • 9,828 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 22nd Mar 18, 8:08 AM
    • #3
    • 22nd Mar 18, 8:08 AM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind most of these companies may well be put out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 22nd Mar 18, 8:12 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    • #4
    • 22nd Mar 18, 8:12 AM
    • #4
    • 22nd Mar 18, 8:12 AM
    Thank you for your reply, Coupon-mad.

    It was indeed Civil Enforcement.

    I have read a small amount of the large mountain of valuable information on this forum; great stuff. Iíll search specifically for my claimant too now, thanks.



    Iíll update here as I go.
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 22nd Mar 18, 9:41 AM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    • #5
    • 22nd Mar 18, 9:41 AM
    • #5
    • 22nd Mar 18, 9:41 AM
    Thanks for your reply, The Deep :-)
    It came in while I was typing mine to Coupon-mad, so I have just seen yours now.
    I'll view the video of the reading later today, thanks for that.
    I knew this dark and murky sub-economy of frightening car drivers out of their money existed but I've never had a fine for anything before, so it's somewhat of a shock to find myself here.
    I am very angry about my case and incredulous that I have to do the legwork and incur cost in order for a clear wrong-doing to be put right. How dare they? I have a life that has been put into turmoil due to this (the resultant low credit score) and that's before I've started any proceedings. I notice that legal changes are afoot and that is reassuring for the future but is too late for my situation, although a pointer towards this for the judge may assist.

    I've taken out several insurance policies since the unknown-to-me CCJ and know I have stated in the applications that I have no CCJ's.
    There's probably more effects of this judgment against me that I've not even computed yet.
    I repeat, I am angry!

    One matter of confusion for me surrounds the set aside process.
    I've read 2 different 'versions' of what to do:
    1. Contest the CCJ (N244 form, etc) and, if successful, CCJ will be set aside and I could possibly be reimbursed my N244 costs. End of the episode and better sleep ensues.
    2. Contest again (N244) and, if successful, CCJ is set aside. Then the claim is heard again and I have a chance to defend myself this time but could lose and end up having to settle the fine for risk of another CCJ.

    Would someone be able to distinguish the nuances there, please?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 22nd Mar 18, 10:02 AM
    • 3,429 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    • #6
    • 22nd Mar 18, 10:02 AM
    • #6
    • 22nd Mar 18, 10:02 AM
    You stated you are not aware of any CCJ, and you were not.

    THere is no nuance there. The claimant has the rigth, if the set aside is granted, to discontinue. Or, they can continue to a new hearing, At a hearing you can lose, and you would likely be out your set aside AND then have to pay within 1 month. But you STILL would have no CCJ assumign you do this.

    You MUST have a draft order within your applicaiton. The form tells you this.

    IN THE COUNTY COURT AT

    CEL (Claimant)

    And

    [YOU] (Defendant)


    District Judge [name]

    UPON reading the Defendant's application dated [date] and the annexed witness statement of [name] dated [date]

    IT IS ORDERED that:

    1. The default judgment dated [date] be set aside.

    2. Costs to be reserved.

    3. Unless the Claimant serves a copy of the Claim Form on the Defendant by 4pm on [date] paragraph 2 shall cease to have effect and the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at £255 and the claim shall be struck out.

    4. If the Claimant serves the claim form as directed in paragraph 3 the Defendant shall file and serve a defence by 4pm on [date].
    THats from someone who absolutely knows their stuff on Pepipoo.
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 22nd Mar 18, 1:51 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    • #7
    • 22nd Mar 18, 1:51 PM
    • #7
    • 22nd Mar 18, 1:51 PM
    Thanks very much, nosferatu1001.

    So, as I understand it, it is dependent on the claimant whether it all ends with the successful setting aside or continues to another hearing (assuming a successful set aside, of course).

    I've taken note of the need for the draft order and thanks for sending a template across :-)
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 22nd Mar 18, 2:33 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    • #8
    • 22nd Mar 18, 2:33 PM
    • #8
    • 22nd Mar 18, 2:33 PM
    Quentin, my apologies. I was trying to be brief but, having re-read it, it shouldn't have made it past quality control!
    I was attempting to say that if my set aside application is successful, then it is down to the claimant if they wish to return to their original dispute with me or whether just to leave it there. - that should have been worded as a question really!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 22nd Mar 18, 3:02 PM
    • 3,429 Posts
    • 4,269 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #9
    • 22nd Mar 18, 3:02 PM
    • #9
    • 22nd Mar 18, 3:02 PM
    Fridge - no, whether or not you get a set asied granted is ENTIRELY up to the court

    There is another option: Uncontested Set aside. You would need the claimant to sign a consent order (usually meaning you agree to pay in full) AND pay the £100 AND you wouild not get the £100 back (of course not) - but with MIL I would not recommend this. Theyre awful, not paying a penny to them is best!

    Yes, the claimant can continue to a new hearing or just discontinue, as ever. A C can discotninue a claim at any time up to the hearing.
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 22nd Mar 18, 5:06 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    nosferatu1001, yes, understood. That was my understanding of it but I worded it clumsily, in haste; sorry.
    I do not like the other option you mention, either. I've already suffered from this more than I would have liked and would rather poke rusty nails in my eyes than give them my money - I had to EARN it.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Mar 18, 1:22 AM
    • 61,584 Posts
    • 74,483 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It was indeed Civil Enforcement.

    I've already suffered from this more than I would have liked and would rather poke rusty nails in my eyes than give them my money - I had to EARN it.
    Originally posted by Fridge_Emptier
    Agreed, now go and nail it, get the CCJ wiped and (hopefully) get the £255 refunded.

    Read saggi's thread, linked in the NEWBIES sticky, in post #2 in the lower paragraphs, about set asides.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 16th Apr 18, 9:09 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    N244 Form
    Sorry it's been a while.
    I've been busy at work and then Easter egg holiday happened.

    I've written my:

    - Draft Order
    - Witness statement
    - Schedule of costs
    - Index sheet (listing all docs and copies for proof)

    I'm confused though about a couple of things now:
    1. at the top of the N244, do I put the name of the court the CCJ was registered in? - not my local county court where I hope it will end up?
    2. how many copies of everything do I need? In this little party I'm organising, there's me, the idiots at unCivil encroachment Ltd and the court. So, do I send 3 copies of everything to the court for them to distribute? Do I just send one copy of everything to the court and then send a copy separately to the claimant idiots?
    I want to send this all off now but want it to be complete.

    Thanks in advance - these forums have been such a great help.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Apr 18, 9:20 PM
    • 9,252 Posts
    • 9,464 Thanks
    KeithP
    Oh dear.

    It's now over three weeks since you last posted.

    Set aside proceedings must be treated with some urgency.

    You will probably need to demonstrate that you took action as soon as you became aware of the CCJ.
    .
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 16th Apr 18, 9:45 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    I did take action.
    I called up the claimant.
    I researched and prepared the aforementioned docs.
    I had work to do - paid by the hour.
    I had a holiday booked that I had to go on.

    So, that aside, what's the take on my questions, please?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Apr 18, 9:48 PM
    • 61,584 Posts
    • 74,483 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    1. at the top of the N244, do I put the name of the court the CCJ was registered in? - not my local county court where I hope it will end up?
    Your local court, which is where it will be heard.

    2. how many copies of everything do I need? In this little party I'm organising, there's me, the idiots at unCivil encroachment Ltd and the court. So, do I send 3 copies of everything to the court for them to distribute? Do I just send one copy of everything to the court and then send a copy separately to the claimant idiots?
    See here, CEL will not turn up, you just send it to your local court (NOT your defence, that's to run thtrough the hearing):

    https://padi.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115002969434-How-to-apply-for-a-CCJ-set-aside
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Apr 18, 10:25 PM
    • 37,275 Posts
    • 21,442 Thanks
    Quentin
    I did take action.
    I called up the claimant.
    I researched and prepared the aforementioned docs.
    I had work to do - paid by the hour.
    I had a holiday booked that I had to go on.
    Originally posted by Fridge_Emptier
    Don't dismiss the delay in submitting your application like this to the Judge.

    You are expected to make your application promptly. You will always see that pointed out wherever you research how to do a set aside. 2 weeks is taken as the longest you should delay.

    (You only get 14 days from service of a claim to contact the court - after which you can get a default ccj if no contact is made.)

    That includes work commitments etc! (Do take care how you deal with this issue!)
    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 16th Apr 18, 11:01 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    Thanks Quentin.

    Hmmm, I didn't realise that.
    I figured, seeing as it's been there and unknown to me for a couple of years that haste was the last thing expected.
    Still doesn't make right what they've done whether I take 2 minutes or 2 months to contest it - in my 'reasonable man' eyes.

    I have a lot going on at the moment and other things had to take priority for the sake of my livelihood.

    I'm now getting more confused by the minute.
    I've taken snippets from Witness statements and Defences from others on this forum.
    I was never quite sure what to send or take with me and when, but I kept building the documents up.

    I think I should send the witness statement and draft order with the N244 and the £255 - nothing else - just that.
    Sound right? Just enough to get the CCJ set aside.

    Then, on hearing day, I bring with me my defence.

    My Witness statement has elements of a defence in it but now I think I just need a few short facts as to why the CCJ should be set aside - wrong address; knew nothing about it.

    Then, all the other information I have (about why the ticket and PCN should never have been issued to me in the first place) should go into the Defence I bring with me.

    I don't want to mess this bit up as well as being seen to have taken more time than they'd expect.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Apr 18, 11:34 PM
    • 61,584 Posts
    • 74,483 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I think I should send the witness statement and draft order with the N244 and the £255 - nothing else - just that.
    Sound right? Just enough to get the CCJ set aside.

    Then, on hearing day, I bring with me my defence.
    Yes that's right, and point out at the hearing, the POFA and the fact CEL do not comply with it and the fact that more than one driver could use that car at the material time (good to have a copy handy of the car insurance to show the Judge too, if it shows more than one possible driver).

    That way you might convince the Judge to strike the entire claim out as having no prospects of success against a rk, in a case where the driver was never identified. There is no cause of action against a keeper, without the POFA.

    Which Court is local to you? Manchester and Skipton are best!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fridge_Emptier
    • By Fridge_Emptier 16th Apr 18, 11:53 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Fridge_Emptier
    Thanks Coupon-mad :-)

    Yes that's right, and point out at the hearing, the POFA and the fact CEL do not comply with it and the fact that more than one driver could use that car at the material time (good to have a copy handy of the car insurance to show the Judge too, if it shows more than one possible driver).

    That way you might convince the Judge to strike the entire claim out as having no prospects of success against a rk, in a case where the driver was never identified. There is no cause of action against a keeper, without the POFA.
    My situation is different. Without giving too much away: I parked with permission in a borrowed car. It was me and I won't contest that. The car park tenant noted my details down so as to avoid a parking fine but seemingly never entered it into their computer system. Ticket ensued. I then called tenant up and they failed again to cancel said fine.
    I was with an associate of mine on the day - we met there. He had the same issue but the tenant managed to cancel his fine when he phoned them. They failed me. I have email conversations printed out relating to these events. That's my defence - system failure resulted in a fine but I parked with permission.

    The CCJ part happened after I'd moved house.

    So, for my defence docs, I have email proof of my associate's fine cancel and the facts of the events as they unfolded. The burden of proof is on them and I'm hoping odds are stacked in my favour.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Apr 18, 11:56 PM
    • 61,584 Posts
    • 74,483 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ah, OK that is a bit different!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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