Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Pensioner1
    • By Pensioner1 3rd Mar 18, 10:01 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Pensioner1
    Retirement Flat - Energy advice
    • #1
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:01 PM
    Retirement Flat - Energy advice 3rd Mar 18 at 10:01 PM
    We have just purchased a small ( 47 sq mtr) one bedroom 2nd floor , centrally situated retirement flat in town centre. Purpose built block in 1998 - original heating/water system. No gas.
    The flat has two old and ugly yellowing ! original storage heaters , one in bedroom and one in lounge - Creda Slimline combi. The heating I think has been Economy 7 tariff. There is a large super seven hot water / immersion tank in hall cupboard.

    The flat needs total refurb. and we really would like any advice please regarding the best heating /hot water system to use regarding economy, efficiency and aesthetics if possible.
    The bathroom has a shower over the bath ; a number of the other flats have replaced bath with electric shower.

    I assume with the present heating system that the night storage heaters heat the hot water in the tank? We have always had gas ; all electric is completely new to us.

    Possibly usually for a retirement flat, the flat will be unoccupied and empty for frequent weeks of the year . Possibly up to 4 months out of 12 but split over the year. It will be checked whilst we are away.

    The hot water tank in a very useful storage cupboard takes up a lot of room and we would like to get rid of the if its a sensible options.



    The storage heaters are 20 years old - should we replace ? - Dimplex Quantum ??

    Thoughts are to replace the bath and over shower with electric shower - if there is sufficient water pressure ?

    Thoughts are to install Quooker Combi or Grohe Red Instant boiling water tap in kitchen to facilitate all needs - yes very expensive item but again might help get rid of huge hot water tank ?

    This would only leave sink in bathroom with no hot water which we could live with.

    We are only in our early 60s and fit and very active; want to try and avoid an overheated environment. The block is very warm anyway.



    Grateful for any advice please. Thank you
Page 1
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 3rd Mar 18, 10:26 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:26 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:26 PM
    You seem to have considered your options pretty well.

    For any all electric property it should be E7 with storage heaters.
    Unless your lifestyle means you use the property infrequently this is the cheapest way to heat it.

    If the current storage heaters are aesthetically offensive, then replacement with modern storage heaters, quantum or otherwise, should be the only option you consider (in terms of all electric). Quantum sell themselves on having more automation (so the best input level is selected), better insulation, so heat is stored for longer (i.e they give out the stored heat over a larger portion of the next day), they also may have a top up that uses expensive day rate (you don't really want to use this).

    If, however, you are happy to set on monitor storage heaters yourself, manually, then standard storage heaters may be the most cost-effective replacement. They should be much cheaper than a quantum storage heater. They just require a bit more manual input.

    The most cost effective solution is to keep the existing ones, as despite their looks, there is probably nothing wrong with them. It is just an option to consider.

    ----

    Losing the tank would mean no water heated on the cheap rate. If, as you say, you are aware and can live with that, so be it.

    An electric shower and an electric hot water tap, while using day rate, should actually be a lot cheaper to run (minus the cost of the expensive hot tap). I know someone who just does not use the E7 tank, and lives quite happily like this. They just use the electric shower and the kettle. It is far cheaper than them heating a 150 litre tank of water they do not use (even if heated on E7 rates).

    ----

    The final option is considering the installation of gas central heating via a combi boiler. This would be best best solution in terms of convenience, ease of operation and the ability to have hot water without a tank. There is the higher upfront cost, and the consideration of getting a gas mains connection installed. You also have annual servicing. But, it does fit with your requirements.

    This may not even be possible if you live in part of a complex, but again, an option to consider.

    ----

    Do not fall foul of any companies marketing super energy efficient heaters with "german clay cores". These heaters, while looking attractive, use the expensive day rate electricity. The system will cost the earth to run and they are usually hugely overpriced. Basically, avoid any company in which a salesperson has to attend.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 03-03-2018 at 10:34 PM.
    • Pensioner1
    • By Pensioner1 3rd Mar 18, 10:36 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Pensioner1
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:36 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:36 PM
    Wow first time posting here , thank you for such a quick response.
    Gas is not an option unfortunately .
    We would love to get rid of tank if electric shower and hot water tap are feasible alternatives - will have to check water pressure ; hard water etc . The last thing we want is expensive installations rendered useless by too low pressure or hard water problems ( i think Quooker taps wont tolerate hard water ?) . Trying to make efficient /future proofed decisions at early stage to avoid future expense .
    yes you are probably right about storage heaters - could I put radiator covers over then without effecting the heat output to room.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 3rd Mar 18, 10:45 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:45 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Mar 18, 10:45 PM
    If you have a hot water tank at the moment, it is probably an old fashioned vented type with a cold water store at the top. Is there a loose lid on the top?

    If the hot water pressure is super low, and the cold water is good pressure, this supports that theory. This is because the hot water pressure is determined by gravity and the height of the top of the tank.

    The issue arises about what the plumber does with the hot feeds, if you want rid of the tank. He will just have to branch of the cold mains, meaning you just have cold taps all round.

    Another option is to get a small slimline pressurised storage tank. This means hot water will be at high pressure. It would also mean you could have a decent normal shower (not a direct electric one) fed from a tank that stored a smaller amount of water at E7 rates.

    Edit: Something like this, it is only 55cm in diameter and 71cm high - 90litres.

    http://www.directheatingsupplies.co.uk/range-tribune-90-litre-direct-td90-unvented-cylinder

    ---

    A fancy cover may interrupt the convection of the heat a bit. But as long as there was enough grills in it, it may be acceptable. Testing it is the only way.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 03-03-2018 at 10:55 PM.
    • Pensioner1
    • By Pensioner1 3rd Mar 18, 11:02 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Pensioner1
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:02 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:02 PM
    Thank you again
    Hot water tank has no loose lid on top - 1998 was when flat was built . Just a huge copper tank solid coating of green coloured hard foam ? various pipes in and out . I have pic but trying to work out how to get a url on my mac ? Flat is on 2nd floor of 4 - no idea where the tank would be to gravity feed but certainly not directly above - on roof or 4th floor loft ?
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 3rd Mar 18, 11:08 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    • #6
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:08 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:08 PM
    No, that is the point, in a gravity system like that, you would normally have cold tanks in the loft on the floor above and the hot water cylinder the floor below. The height difference between the two is what gives the hot water it's pressure...due to gravity.

    In those installed in flats, that loose lid on top IS the cold water tank. it is combined into one cylinder with the hot water store under it. That is why it is so big.

    So in terms of hot water pressure, it is determined by the distance from the top of that tank, to the bottom. Hence why your hot water pressure is probably pants.

    You cold water will be direct mains pressure though.
    ----

    A pressurised tank means that a cold water storage tank is not needed. Meaning the tank can be smaller and the hot water will be at mains pressure too.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 03-03-2018 at 11:20 PM.
    • boliston
    • By boliston 3rd Mar 18, 11:59 PM
    • 2,643 Posts
    • 2,185 Thanks
    boliston
    • #7
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:59 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Mar 18, 11:59 PM
    an alternative to storage heaters that still uses an E7 tariff is a "thermal storage" system like gledhill pulsacoil as this gives both mains pressure hot water and hot water for radiators https://www.gledhill.net/products/thermal-storage/pulsacoil-eco-stainless/
    • Pensioner1
    • By Pensioner1 4th Mar 18, 12:04 AM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Pensioner1
    • #8
    • 4th Mar 18, 12:04 AM
    • #8
    • 4th Mar 18, 12:04 AM
    yes after checking it seems like i do have a vented cylinder ( insulated with polyuthane)
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 4th Mar 18, 12:36 PM
    • 3,675 Posts
    • 950 Thanks
    Anthorn
    • #9
    • 4th Mar 18, 12:36 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Mar 18, 12:36 PM
    I have personal experience of sheltered retirement flats in two locations in Northamptonshire and Cambridgeshire. Both of them were all electric because there was no gas coming into the property. Could that be the reason why gas is not feasible?

    My new home although a retirement flat, is not sheltered and has both gas and electric. My current energy installations were the result of a home energy survey which I paid for and a water survey by the water company which was free. What I have briefly is a gas combi boiler which provides heating to radiators in every room and hot water taps on demand and an electric shower. Walls and loft in the block were already insulated and solar panels on the roof provide lighting for communal areas which offsets against the annual charges.

    For me the home energy survey was useful because I had expert advice on what to install with qualified contractors to do the work and the free water survey by my local water company was even better. The water survey also recommended an electric shower and sort of underlined the findings of the home energy survey,

    I especially recommend the free water survey if your local water company provides one. They came back to my home after the electric shower was fitted and for free fitted a new shower head which increased the pressure without increasing the supply of water to the shower and also fitted for free a bucket thingy (no brand name on it) in the cistern which cut down on the amount of water in the cistern. They say they will also do an annual water survey also for free.

    Also check with your local council on the possibility of grants which support making your home more energy efficient.

    Anyway that's my personal experience which I hope you find useful.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 4th Mar 18, 3:25 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    @boliston - That pulsacoil is certainly option. The only downside to it is that I have read a lot of anecdotal reports that the system is very unreliable. It is a bit more complex than a standard cylinder hence it seems there is more to go wrong.

    A normal small cylinder is lighter when empty, so normally easier to initially install, but seems to require a more specialised installation. It is also simpler in operation so less to go wrong over it's lifetime. It will require services/checks due to it's pressurised nature. So both seem to have pros and cons.

    ----

    @ Anthorn

    Some of the things you mention interest me.

    Was the free water survey to save water?

    The shower head you mention will not increase the pressure. But, it may do one of two things.

    Be less restrictive, therefore allow more water to flow and in turn use more water and give a better shower.

    Or

    Have a water saving device, which is more restrictive, uses less water but gives a fine/faster spray, giving the impression of a better shower (kind of like putting your thumb on the end of a hose).

    ---

    Also, I am interested as to why, in a house with a combi boiler you have an electric shower. The electric shower will be more costly to run than a shower directly off the combi. A combi should have enough flow and be at mains pressure. This will give you a very good shower using gas as the heat source.

    Granted, the cost of ripping the electric shower out and installing a shower fed from the combi may be more trouble than it is worth, especially in cost. But I thought I would point that out.

    I am also interested, what did the energy survey say about the electric heating you had in the original retirement home? What set-up was it?

    You also say you paid for an energy survey? Was it to get an EPC rating? How much did you pay and who carried it out?
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 4th Mar 18, 4:10 PM
    • 3,675 Posts
    • 950 Thanks
    Anthorn
    @CashStrapped

    Water survey to check that I was economical as possible in using water and paying for it. It included the fitting of a water meter and a guarantee that if the water bill was more than I would have paid on the flat rate I could return to the flat rate within 2 years. The supplier is Anglian Water.

    The shower head is adjustable and the shower has a slow and fast rate of flow. The shower head can be adjusted to also provide a rate of flow without adjusting the shower rate of flow. The shower brand is Mira Advance.

    In my two previous homes which were sheltered housing the heating and hot water was communal at a cost of 51 per month for the first and 57 per month for the second. That contrasts with my current cost for gas for heating, hot water and cooking of 36 per month and for electricity for showers and lighting of 15 per month making the total for dual fuel of 46 per month averaged over a year on Scottish Power Super Saver Dec 1918. However MSE CEC for my usage calculates 41 per month. That makes me below the level of a low user.

    I don't know the answers to the rest of the questions. I simply used the companies listed in a local council information sheet
    Last edited by Anthorn; 04-03-2018 at 4:26 PM. Reason: electric cost and overall dual fuel cost added
    • Pensioner1
    • By Pensioner1 4th Mar 18, 6:51 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Pensioner1
    Thank you again everyone for such detailed replies.
    No gas possible to any of flats in block.
    Water charges not an issue as included in service charge/lease.
    Flat for over 60s not sheltered housing.

    Looking at Mira Alero electric shower.
    As we do a lot of sport ( yes even the over 60s!) we want to avoid an overheated flat, and in the past have never had heating on in bedroom and slept with window partially open. We will be away a lot and out of flat a great deal during the day.
    However as having just purchased this flat and having to do a complete refurb , we want to try and future proof the utilities.
    We have yet to check the mains water pressure coming into flat to ensure it will support the above electric shower and Quooker tap ( needs min 2 bar)
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 5th Mar 18, 12:34 PM
    • 4,176 Posts
    • 5,393 Thanks
    zeupater
    I have personal experience of sheltered retirement flats in two locations in Northamptonshire and Cambridgeshire. Both of them were all electric because there was no gas coming into the property. Could that be the reason why gas is not feasible?

    My new home although a retirement flat, is not sheltered and has both gas and electric. My current energy installations were the result of a home energy survey which I paid for and a water survey by the water company which was free. What I have briefly is a gas combi boiler which provides heating to radiators in every room and hot water taps on demand and an electric shower. Walls and loft in the block were already insulated and solar panels on the roof provide lighting for communal areas which offsets against the annual charges.

    For me the home energy survey was useful because I had expert advice on what to install with qualified contractors to do the work and the free water survey by my local water company was even better. The water survey also recommended an electric shower and sort of underlined the findings of the home energy survey,

    I especially recommend the free water survey if your local water company provides one. They came back to my home after the electric shower was fitted and for free fitted a new shower head which increased the pressure without increasing the supply of water to the shower and also fitted for free a bucket thingy (no brand name on it) in the cistern which cut down on the amount of water in the cistern. They say they will also do an annual water survey also for free.

    Also check with your local council on the possibility of grants which support making your home more energy efficient.

    Anyway that's my personal experience which I hope you find useful.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Hi

    I don't really follow that post re the water advice ...

    If you have a combi-boiler then you have hot water on demand for both the taps & the shower. This will provide DHW for the shower at gas unit costs, the advice to fit an electric shower may save the equivalent of the standing cold water in the hot pipe run between the boiler and the shower head, so a relatively small saving, at the expense of paying around 3 or 4 times more for the energy to heat that water ... a cubic meter of water may cost (say) 3, but heating that volume of water to shower temperatures would require between 30 & 40kWh of energy, so (say) 1.60 with gas & 6.40 with electricity .... effectively, if you could use 10% less water with the electric shower, for every 30p you save on your water bill, you're spending around 4.80 more on energy. Where your shower hot water was costing around 5/cubic meter, it's now costing close to 10, so the expert advice given has resulted in your showers costing you double what they were before !! ..... great advice, don't you just love experts!? ....

    The water survey may have been good for reduction of water usage when looked at in isolation, it may also show a reduction in energy required to heat the water (both depending on the length of the DHW pipe run from boiler to shower) but it seems that they completely failed to consider the relative cost of energy & the impact on consumer bills ...

    Think about the above & consider whether you would still 'recommend the free water survey' ....

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 5th Mar 18, 3:11 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    Indeed @zeupater That is the point I was trying to make, but I felt it was not worth trying to probe any further. The energy assessment (if not for EPC purposes) seems to be a bit of a fleece to me.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 5th Mar 18, 4:01 PM
    • 3,675 Posts
    • 950 Thanks
    Anthorn
    Hi

    I don't really follow that post re the water advice ...

    If you have a combi-boiler then you have hot water on demand for both the taps & the shower. This will provide DHW for the shower at gas unit costs, the advice to fit an electric shower may save the equivalent of the standing cold water in the hot pipe run between the boiler and the shower head, so a relatively small saving, at the expense of paying around 3 or 4 times more for the energy to heat that water ... a cubic meter of water may cost (say) 3, but heating that volume of water to shower temperatures would require between 30 & 40kWh of energy, so (say) 1.60 with gas & 6.40 with electricity .... effectively, if you could use 10% less water with the electric shower, for every 30p you save on your water bill, you're spending around 4.80 more on energy. Where your shower hot water was costing around 5/cubic meter, it's now costing close to 10, so the expert advice given has resulted in your showers costing you double what they were before !! ..... great advice, don't you just love experts!? ....

    The water survey may have been good for reduction of water usage when looked at in isolation, it may also show a reduction in energy required to heat the water (both depending on the length of the DHW pipe run from boiler to shower) but it seems that they completely failed to consider the relative cost of energy & the impact on consumer bills ...

    Think about the above & consider whether you would still 'recommend the free water survey' ....

    HTH
    Z
    Originally posted by zeupater
    You are not considering that the electric shower is using less water and therefore less energy to heat it than getting hot water from the combi boiler. Also you are not considering the safety of constant temperature water from the electric shower in preference to possibly fluctuating temperature water from the combi boiler. Remember this is a retirement flat intended to be occupied by older people and that's a major consideration.

    Alternatively we could trust your opinion as someone who has not surveyed the property while distrusting experienced and professional tradesmen who have surveyed the property. I prefer to trust the professionals. Oh yes I still recommend the water survey because that reduced the cost of water.
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 5th Mar 18, 4:08 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    Sorry, but that is incorrect @Anthorn.

    Showers fed from combi boilers are normally installed with thermostatic shower controls. These ensure a constant temperature is maintained and that no scalding water can make it out of the shower head. They automatically mix hot and cold to maintain a set temperature. Most actually stop you from setting the water too hot and you have to press a button to override it if desired.

    ---

    A combi will use no more water than an electric shower. It might have better flow than an electric shower, but all you have to do is fit a water saving shower head to restrict said flow. That is all they did with your shower electric shower.

    The electric shower will cost more (pence per kwh) to heat the water used for the shower. You can do the maths on that.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 05-03-2018 at 4:18 PM.
    • Anthorn
    • By Anthorn 5th Mar 18, 4:20 PM
    • 3,675 Posts
    • 950 Thanks
    Anthorn
    Sorry, but that is incorrect @Anthorn.

    Showers fed from combi boilers are normally installed with thermostatic shower controls. These ensure a constant temperature is maintained and that no scalding water can make it out of the shower head. They automatically mix hot and cold to maintain a set temperature. Some actually stop you from setting the water too hot and you have to press a button to override it if desired.

    ---

    A combi will use no more water than an electric shower. It might have better flow than an electric shower, but all you have to do is fit a water saving shower head to restrict said flow. That is all they did with your shower electric shower.

    The electric shower will cost a lot more (pence per kwh) to heat the water used for the shower. You can do the maths on that, it is very simple.
    Originally posted by CashStrapped
    You could be right but I suspect not: When I turn on the hot water tap the water is cold. It then gradually heats until if I'm still running the hot tap I have to turn on the cold tap. Then if I turn off the hot tap and then turn it back on again when the hot water in the pipes is used the water then requires the boiler. That's a roundabout way of illustrating that hot water from the combi boiler is not at a constant temperature and anyone who knows about combi boilers will know that it heats water on demand when a tap or indeed shower turns on. However the heat of water coming from my electric shower heats the water instantly and the water temperature is constant. That is important for older people in a retirement flat.

    My last in this. Can't teach someone who thinks they already know everything!
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 5th Mar 18, 4:45 PM
    • 1,286 Posts
    • 720 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    Firstly, at what point did I declare I know everything? Saying this is your last word on the subject and then throwing that comment out is not exactly a positive way to try and end a discussion.

    You are basically trying to say that I am wrong but can't accept it. All I have done is given an alternative opinion. Whether you consider it or not it is up to you.

    People who regularly read my posts in the is forum, (I hope would agree) should see that I am always fair and look at all the options. If I am wrong and shown evidence to that effect, I am more than happy to accept this.
    ---

    All I am doing is pointing out a number of issues with the advice you have given.

    ----
    Regarding your taps situation, after reading what you have written a few times.

    The reason why the water from the hot tap is initially cold is that a combi has to get rid of the water that has been sat in the pipe getting cold. After this what water will heat to the temperature set on the boiler.

    You could argue that this is a waste of water, and I would agree, especially for hand washing. But for a shower, which lasts longer, it is less of an issue. Depending on the temperature of the incoming mains cold I often have to fiddle with the set temperature of an electric shower. The flow rates from an electric shower are also more affected by the incoming cold water temperature.

    Most combis have a setting for radiator temperature and tap water temperature. You can ensure the water does not get scalding from this setting alone.

    Regarding any inconsistency in temperature, that is why the installation of a thermostatic mixer tap is recommended with a shower on a combi. This will ensure a consistent temperature, and prevent any scalding.

    ----

    There are lots of variables, but in most instances, using a modern condensing combi will be cheaper than an electric shower. This is based on the price of gas vs electric and the efficiency of a modern combi boiler that is set-up correctly.
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 05-03-2018 at 6:15 PM.
    • zeupater
    • By zeupater 5th Mar 18, 4:51 PM
    • 4,176 Posts
    • 5,393 Thanks
    zeupater
    You are not considering that the electric shower is using less water and therefore less energy to heat it than getting hot water from the combi boiler. Also you are not considering the safety of constant temperature water from the electric shower in preference to possibly fluctuating temperature water from the combi boiler. Remember this is a retirement flat intended to be occupied by older people and that's a major consideration.

    Alternatively we could trust your opinion as someone who has not surveyed the property while distrusting experienced and professional tradesmen who have surveyed the property. I prefer to trust the professionals. Oh yes I still recommend the water survey because that reduced the cost of water.
    Originally posted by Anthorn
    Hi

    From what you described, it's the flow restriction shower head that saves the water and this was a free refit after the electric shower was installed ... as 'CashStrapped' mentioned, this can be achieved just as easily on a shower fed by the combi-boiler ....

    Regarding 'using less water and therefore less energy to heat it than getting hot water from the combi boiler' ... I did, I allowed for a 10% reduction in water usage to account for the cold water run-off before the shower reaching temperature and therefore also a 10% reduction in energy wastage in unneeded hot water sitting in the pipework when the shower valve is closed .... I don't know what the pipe run in your own situation is, however, 10% wastage would allow for a considerable pipe run!

    On 'safety of constant temperature water from the electric shower' ... thermostatic shower valves are available, ours are thermostatic and the whole house DHW supply is moderated by a thermostatic mixer valve which blends hot &cold water to protect from scalding at the taps as we tend to store DHW at high temperatures ...

    I take your point that I've not surveyed the property and the 'professionals' have, however, these 'professionals' may have vested interests or are considering water usage with no regard to cost of energy (which I don't & haven't), but whichever is the case you will still be spending more on the energy to heat your showers than was necessary .. in the example I provided (which isn't likely to be too far out) for every 1p you are saving on water consumption, you're spending around 16p extra on energy, so the calculations would need to be hugely wrong before the logic doesn't apply ... they may be inaccurate according to your particular property by up to a handful of percent, but not 16x !! ...

    HTH
    Z
    Last edited by zeupater; 05-03-2018 at 4:56 PM. Reason: +'
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    • boliston
    • By boliston 5th Mar 18, 8:52 PM
    • 2,643 Posts
    • 2,185 Thanks
    boliston
    i used to have an electric shower and i now have combi powered shower and the flow rate is much better with the combi - there is a delay of about a minute to get water hot enough to shower under but there is no way i would want to go back to an electric shower!
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

134Posts Today

1,285Users online

Martin's Twitter