Poor work history/mental health - what should I do?

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SpicyChickenBaguette
SpicyChickenBaguette Posts: 37 Forumite
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  • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
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    Honestly? Your expectations far exceed your usefulness to an employer.

    Have a look at your list again. You've basically asked for a job that anyone can do, no matter how unqualified or unskilled, that has good prospects. If jobs like that were freely available, why would anyone bother getting qualified or training?

    As you don't want to train, just apply for jobs and take the best you can get. Try and get something where you will be learning some useful skills; or at least where other people in the company are using these skills and you will be exposed to them; it doesn't really matter what - you are not in a position to pick and choose. Don't expect to be trained in them and hand-held in your personal development. Educate yourself in them.

    Make an effort to make yourself useful and do more than is being asked of you in your entry level position, and they might let you do more and more on the skilled side. When you have been doing it for a while, if you do it reasonably well, you might be able to get something better.

    You will no doubt get a long list of people suggesting specific fields you could take ten years unsuccessfully trying to get into. Ignore these, well-meaning though they are.
  • Folander
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    I think there will be a few posts offering a reality check to you. You say you want it all, tomorrow, without working for it. That is not going to happen.

    In my opinion your only way to become a skilled professional is to start early at the bottom and work your way up. This option is not available to you. To become a skilled professional you need a skill, which comes from either a qualification or experience and it requires time, time which you have ruled out.

    Have you gone on any courses that available to you being on the dole to improve your prospects? Well then you'll have to start at the bottom then, in perhaps Warehousing or Retail and use the jobs to upskill. What's to stop you asking for more experience doing this, doing that when you're in a job 'Can I stay late and help you with that please?'. That is how you upskill.

    I guess you see me and think you could do my job and why I am doing it and not you, it's not fair. But you don't see how I got there.10 years ago I was working in a factory making road signs it was a very dead end job. I wanted all what you wanted, so I decided to do something about it. I went to college in the evenings for a few years, had no social life and wasn't earning much either but I did it and am now a Chartered Accountant, a skilled professional.

    Why don't you start with more realistic goals, say within 1 year you want an entry level job in a company that interests you. Then see what skills the person above you has and try to attain those skills. Don't stop doing that until you reach the top!

    This forum is not going to magic up a career for you.
  • BigAunty
    BigAunty Posts: 8,310 Forumite
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    Why must you be earning 35k by the time you are 40? The average UK salary is around 25k, though an average isn't always a meaningful figure. Are you perhaps setting yourself up with a hard to achieve target (note that I didn't say it was impossible).?

    You say its so you can afford a house but remember that a mortgage is a debt and still needs to be paid if your illhealth returns. I expect most people buy a small flat with their partner and have two salaries to contribute towards the property so you don't need to flog yourself to death to achieve that income.

    A graduate with 10 years experience with a strong work history in their CV still might be earning in the 20s as a salary.

    What's stopping you from aspiring to have 20 or 25k in a job that makes you happy within the next decade? Or just a job that you enjoy regardless of income?

    There is a guy who used to pop up on this forum in their late 20s who suffered from depression and anxiety with virtually no career history who had a similar reluctance to consider 'dead end' jobs. He refused to consider undertaking voluntary work to boost his CV and his confidence but eventually relented after 6 months. After a couple of weeks of starting a part time voluntary job, he was annoyed that it didn't lead immediately into full time employment. He pretty much found that employers offering 'dead end' jobs that he eventually started to apply for actually shunned him. That knocked his confidence again.
  • BigAunty
    BigAunty Posts: 8,310 Forumite
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    What do you actually like doing? What careers do you admire? Do have a particular interest in your personal life you'd like to develop?

    For example, because of your personal health issues, would you like to work with vulnerable people in social care or project work, supporting people with physical or mental health issues, addictions, homelessness? If so, now is the time to gain voluntary work with a charity to boost your CV and check that it's the right career for you. This could eventually lead into a management or coordination role. Perhaps it could form the basis for you to train as a counsellor.

    Do you have the appetite for self employment? Creating your own work gets around the fact that you aren't necessarily going to be attractive to regular employers. However, self employment is not for everyone.

    There are plenty of websites that give ideas for cheap start ups. My gardener charges £150 a day and is booked up months in advance. My pet sitters are also booked up in advance and get around £10 a visit but might have half a dozen or dozen bookings a day. My previous cleaner got around £12 per hour. Dog walkers in my area can charge a tenner a walk. However, there will be periods when they don't earn a penny.

    Would you like a less well paid but perhaps more secure type of employment where there is a possibility of promotion by merit?

    If so, the Civil Service recruits hundreds of entry level jobs at AA/AO (admin assistant and admin officer) in massive intakes each year all across the country. The bulk are mainly contact centre roles dealing with tax claims and tax credits (HMRC) and benefit claims (DWP) but there are other departments.

    They often have no or low entry requirements (5 GCSEs) with perhaps an online test that can be practised. However, the interview questions will be competency based and so you will need to provide concrete examples of delivering a piece of work at pace (time sensitive), collaborating and partnering to achieve an objective (team work), managing quality or similar. You can use examples from personal life, studies or employment.

    So you can join the Civil Service on around 17k per year, then make the next grade to 19k, then the next one into management around 23k but this could take years.

    You don't sound like you have the patience for this but the Civil Service is a major recruiter who won't hold your weak employment history against you as long as you can prove competency through online tests and/or interview.

    Either way, you will learn business skills that you can transfer into the private sector. Download the Civil Service Competency Framework and get an understanding of the competencies you will have to show to get an entry level job (many companies have competency based interviews).

    Have you considered call centre work? Some people consider this 'beneath' them but the big companies like the banks do offer proper training and again have low entry requirements for qualifications or employment history. A person on this forum says his company loves recruiting employees from call centre backgrounds because of their strong employment skills, so it seems quite transferable and leads onto other things.
  • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
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    He won't get a civil service job. Not a hope in hell. Just having the minimum qualifications doesn't mean they will even look at your application twice.

    They will definitely hold his weak employment history against him, even if he does prove competency through tests. A huge number of people will prove competency through tests, and many will have relevant experience to go with that.
  • DomRavioli
    DomRavioli Posts: 3,136 Forumite
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    Hi OP,

    You need real relevant experience. Forget the salary expectations, and start studying towards a skilled career. As someone who has had diagnosed MH for the last 23 years, it is very possible to have a good job and MH - it is very difficult to keep it together day in, day out, and your original post suggests you still have a way to go before you are attractive to the jobs market. Speak to your GP and discuss options for long term stability, its not all medications and there are a lot of alternatives, but without a concrete plan of what happens when it goes wrong (because it will go wrong) you will not break the cycle, and end up sick, in hospital, in short term employment.

    Start by doing the basics - apply for entry level roles (and don't have the attitude you've had on your OP, retail and warehousing are great jobs when you have nothing), get your concrete plans in place and a support network with real information for you and others if it goes wrong, and decide what you want to do.
  • BigAunty
    BigAunty Posts: 8,310 Forumite
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    edited 25 February 2016 at 11:41AM
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    He won't get a civil service job. Not a hope in hell. Just having the minimum qualifications doesn't mean they will even look at your application twice.

    They will definitely hold his weak employment history against him, .

    I'm not sure that its his thing as promotion in the Civil Service can go at a snails pace anyway, though it can be a springboard into better paying business support roles in the private sector.

    However, I still feel the Civil Service will simply recruit those who perform the best in any online tests that they set (many of their entry level roles have a test) and those who perform best at interview where the interview panel marks each candidate. Though, yes, sometimes they say it is desirable if the candidate has some contact or customer facing experience.

    The sift is mainly based on the tests and interview, AFAIK, though I am willing to be contradicted on this.

    I don't believe at the interview the candidate have to talk about their employment history directly. Instead, they must prove their deadline meeting/quality/team skills with examples and while most will use examples from their career history, the interviewee can use their volunteering or community or studying achievements.
  • TBagpuss
    TBagpuss Posts: 11,205 Forumite
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    I agree with others that you are being a little bit unrealistic in terms of what you want, and what you are prepared to do to get it.
    You've phrased you post in a fairly negative way - there is a list of things you don't want to do, but not so much about what you would be interested in or feel you could so well.

    What do you feel your strengths are? Are the any elements of your past history which you feel you could turn into a positive? For instnace, (depending on whether your involvment with drugs led to any criminal convictions) you might look into options working with young offenders, early intervention programs to help people avoid getting pulled in to those issues, areas such as counselling etc. These specific ideas might not suit you, but it may be worth thinking about whether there are other experiences you have had which you've learned from or which could be useful.

    If you can identify the type of career you would like, you could also look at part time courses or the Open University so that you could combine working and study.

    Consider looking at access courses which might give you some initial experience of being a mature student.

    My Brother in Law left schol at 16. He was briefly in the RAF and then had various jobs, none of them particualrly challenging or with long term career prospects. At 35 he did an access course and then a degree, and now works in the NHS. He was older than most of the other students on his degree course but in many ways he felt that gave him an advantage when it came to lookingfor jobs etc - he was much clearer about what he wanted, he already had lots of life experience, and expeirience of holding down a job and understnading that every job has boring / unpleasant aspects. I think that he fact that he had made a deliberate choice to go back into education and to give up paid work to do so made a diference, too - employers rightly saw it as an indication of his committment.
    He also got on well with the younger students.

    So don't rule out the possibility of further educatation once you can identify what type of career you would like to have.

    Do you know what your triggers are for becoming unwell? That's likely to be fairly importnat in looking at what kind of jobs may suit you - do you work best in a team or independently, for instance? Do you benefit from having a structered environment with clear rules and procedures, or do you do better in a more fluid environment? This might make a difference to whether you will do better in a large organisation or in a smaller buisness.

    If you don't want to go o university then think about tyoes of wok where you might be able to train and progress on the job - as an example, my compnay currently has two staff mmembers both of whom joined as office juiniors, who are now being trained within our cashiers department. We are sending them on external courses as well as having the on the job training and they will gain accounts qualifications, and specific qualifications relating to our industry. This does require work on thei part as well as ours - we are paying their course fees and they get paid study leave for attending the courses and for exams, but they do have to study in their own time as well. They curently earn more than they did as office juniors and have been given pay rises as they develop.

    I have a friend who started her working life as a secretary, worked for various firms of solicitors and is now a paralegal runnng her own caseload.

    My brother did various 'entry level', not very interesting jobs while he studied for his OU degree. He then managed to get onto the BBCs graduate training programme despuite being, at that point, a mature student so competing against younger application who had gone directly to university from school. As with my BIL, I think that the etermination and self-discipline that he demonstrated by choosing to go down the mature student route and sticking to but were advantages, not disadvantages, when it came to job hunting.

    You mention that you are volunteering at an animal shelter - is thisfor a small local organisation, or one linked to a bigger charity? If it is the latter, you could make enquiries about whether there are any openings for either volunatary or paid work elsewhere in the organsation - for instance, if you want a creative job, do they have a dedicated fundraising or publicity department where you could use those skills? Volunteering in the office rather than at the shelpter might allow you to build up useful, ttransferable skills and might also but you in a strong position to apply for any paid jobs which come up.
    All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)
  • BigAunty
    BigAunty Posts: 8,310 Forumite
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    DomRavioli wrote: »

    Start by doing the basics - apply for entry level roles (and don't have the attitude you've had on your OP, retail and warehousing are great jobs when you have nothing), .

    As a newby graduate struggling with job interviews, I read an interview book that was an eye opener to me.

    It basically said, forget looking at a job application process as an opportunity for well paid enjoyable work, a way to earn money to live - employers don't care about job satisfaction or paying their employees.

    See it from the employers perspective only. You are there to impress them and argue your case for why you can earn them income or save them expenses, that's all you are to them, however its wrapped up.

    You have to go to the interview with the attitude that you are there to serve them in the way they need, they are not there to achieve your goals.

    So the OP has to stop prioritising their needs, wants, expectations and aims. The OP has to understand that he has to prioritise the needs, wants, expectations and aims of the employer, to be on the same wavelength of them and make the employer want to take them on.

    So what does the OP have to offer them? At the moment, he is apparently 'ok with numeracy' and a bit 'creative'. That's fairly thin, though there is a lot to be said for positive attitude and behaviours, they sound fairly motivated, plus his voluntary work improves his position.
  • SpicyChickenBaguette
    SpicyChickenBaguette Posts: 37 Forumite
    edited 25 February 2016 at 1:01PM
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    OP here.

    Thank you for all the replies, some of them were quite lengthy so I appreciate the time you have taken to write them.

    First of all, I didn't say I didn't want to train or study something I just said I didn't want to go to university for 3 years. I don't mind studying a qualification or training in something if it has a reasonable timescale to get a basic qualification (say a year or a so) so was hoping all of your out there who work in different sectors could suggest something.

    I am prepared to relocate, to work hard and consider most potential jobs, I just don't want to be stuck in a dead end job with no movement. I can't believe how few opportunities there seem to be out there for people that don't want to study a degree. My brother has an IT-related degree with a 2:1 from a good university and has struggled to find any relevant work and it seems to be a common theme with degrees these days that people struggle to find work, and a lot seem to regret doing their degrees.

    I know things will require patience, but I don't mind that if I know there is some sort of structure and pathway. I don't want to be that guy in his late 50's/60's pushing trollies around a carpark. And before you all jump on my back with "theres nothing wrong with pushing trollies around a carpark" I'm not saying there is, I just want to achieve more than that, I just don't know the right pathway.

    Having read this forum for a couple of years people are all too quick to emphasis moral viewpoints and be "real" about situations, but when someone says they don't want to be pushing trollies around a carpark or working a dead end job I get the impression I'm being ungrateful? So you wouldn't mind doing that job then? It's very easy to criticise someone else when you yourself are in a comfortable position work wise or financially.

    Can we be a bit more constructive? Are there any courses people know of that can be achieved in 18 months or less that will lead to a qualification that can get my foot in the door somewhere on that alone (or perhaps with a bit of work experience I can fit in)?
    DomRavioli wrote: »
    (and don't have the attitude you've had on your OP, retail and warehousing are great jobs when you have nothing), get your concrete plans in place and a support network with real information for you and others if it goes wrong, and decide what you want to do.

    Sorry but I don't think I'm having an attitude when I'm speaking from experience. There are zero prospects for 99% of people who aspire to promotion in retail or warehouse work unless you want to be a "supervisor" and get an extra £1,000 a year. You have to be a graduate to get most management roles now, or have been there for 20 years. I don't think it's a negative thing to say something from experience and having talked to staff I've worked with in several different companies.
    TBagpuss wrote: »
    You mention that you are volunteering at an animal shelter - is thisfor a small local organisation, or one linked to a bigger charity? If it is the latter, you could make enquiries about whether there are any openings for either volunatary or paid work elsewhere in the organsation - for instance, if you want a creative job, do they have a dedicated fundraising or publicity department where you could use those skills? Volunteering in the office rather than at the shelpter might allow you to build up useful, ttransferable skills and might also but you in a strong position to apply for any paid jobs which come up.

    It's for a local private shelter/charity. I've already asked about employment but they are such a small, family run business that they don't take anyone else on - they get everyone they need through volunteering. The volunteer work I have done has been a mix of office work and hands on work.
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