Poor work history/mental health - what should I do?

SpicyChickenBaguette

So does everyone here have a degree that directly landed them a job then?

If you don't have a degree, how did you get to where you are now?

Considering a couple of people have mentioned how my patchy CV/work history will go against me, should I lie on my CV (as much as I can get away with)? I wouldn't ordinarily suggest doing it but seeing as I have nothing to lose at the moment (literally), I can't see the harm in doing it if it will improve the chances of an interview?

BigAunty

SpicyChickenBaguette wrote: »

Considering a couple of people have mentioned how my patchy CV/work history will go against me, should I lie on my CV (as much as I can get away with)? I wouldn't ordinarily suggest doing it but seeing as I have nothing to lose at the moment (literally), I can't see the harm in doing it if it will improve the chances of an interview?

That's a dilemma for me to answer.

On the one hand, I have managed to smooth over gaps on my CV fairly legitimately as I was self employed and chose not to highlight long void periods between contracts in order to increase my employability. So I have done some CV tweaking to bolster it.

On the other, I really feel for you as a CV is the key springboard into a job interview and you have essentially very little to show for yourself over the last decade.

However, to lie shows a leaning towards a lack of integrity on your part and not wanting to take responsibility for the consequences of your non and under employment.

Far better I think to populate the CV with meaningful true skills, experiences and achievements from your recent past onwards and do other actions to work around and mitigate the impact of your patchy CV and history of poor health.

I can see why it is very tempting though. I have seen friends suffer in long periods of under and non employment who have wanted to do the same.

BigAunty

SpicyChickenBaguette wrote: »

Can we be a bit more constructive? Are there any courses people know of that can be achieved in 18 months or less that will lead to a qualification that can get my foot in the door somewhere on that alone (or perhaps with a bit of work experience I can fit in)?

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You have rather a fixed focus on the magic bullet of a single brief training course that will guarantee you a salary of at least 35k within a decade when you are starting from less than zero.

It's a shame that you feel the posters are moralising and being nay sayers but there is a bit of a ground hog day from posters like yourself who don't like their expectations challenged.

What's wrong with the forum members cautioning you against this expectation and asking you to consider factors like job satisfaction, a fit with your interests, a bit more patience, a bit more wider thinking than there is a course out there that will catapult you from a background of ill-health, a lack of skills, qualifications and experience, into a middle management salary?

Self employment is constructive advice. Entry level jobs like call centres and junior civil service roles is constructive advice. Research into social care/project worker roles is constructive. They address the paucity of what you can offer employers who typically shun applicants like yourself. They don't address your desire to be able to build up a nest egg to buy a property quickly but there is not necessarily a quick win to be had in the way that you wish.

Take a TEFL qualification and teach English overseas - may be enjoyable but not lucrative. Take some A'levels or a HNC/HND and then tutor in these subjects - may pay a lot per hour but perhaps you won't get that many students. Take out a career development loan and train as a handyman or plasterer and go self employed - could be lucrative, could be risky due to strong competition.

You seem to be seeking reward and I don't think its unhelpful if we point out risks and obstructions in your journey to affluence.

I am a post-graduate with a strong CV and if push came to shove, yes I'd clean toilets, work in a call centre and shove trolleys without seeing it as a slight. Not ideal occupations but I'd rather do that than claim benefits and have no structure to my free time, no social network.

I'm older and have worked in a variety of roles, industries and company cultures. I could earn a lot more money than I do but it means working in high pressured roles with little work-life balance that involve making shareholders wealthy rather than contributing to communities and society. Do you really want to flog yourself to death just to earn x sum by x date?

SpicyChickenBaguette

Am I writing off completing a degree prematurely?

I'm 31, the two things that put me off about a degree are that firstly I would need to complete my A-Levels or an Access course to get there as well as waiting for a start date (minimum of Sept 2017) and the followed by at least 3 years of being a student, I won't graduate until I'm 35/36 at the earliest.

The reason that puts me off is due to the following:

- I'm missing "prime" years of work/life, it would be difficult to forge a meaningful relationship for example whilst studying at university
- I'm fearful that on graduating I won't be able to find employment that reflects the degree and end up in an entry level role again
- I'm fearful that if it comes to nothing and I don't get any sort of advantage from completing a degree that I will have wasted 4 or 5 years of work


Basically, the reason I've written off doing a degree is that there is a lot of personal risk involved. I don't mind the student debt as it's affordable in repayment and gets written off after a certain amount of time, I'm worried that I will look back a couple of years after graduating and think, "I've already lost 10 years of my life due to mental health issues and unemployment, now I've just wasted another 5 years completing a degree that didn't get me anywhere and I'm no better off financially".

If I am persuaded to take a degree, I would like to do one that has real prospects of a job - I hear so many people complain that they regret their degree or did it in the wrong subject area and that they struggle to find relevant jobs and/or can only find entry level minimum wage work.

Are there any subject areas with a near enough guaranteed job at the end of it? I wouldn't be interested in nursing or anything healthcare related as I've spent too much time in and around hospitals and sick of it to be honest.

SpicyChickenBaguette

BigAunty wrote: »

However, to lie shows a leaning towards a lack of integrity on your part and not wanting to take responsibility for the consequences of your non and under employment.

Hardly a case of not taking responsibility for something I had no control over, I was unemployed due to mental health problems, I wouldn't have employed myself with the state I was in. It's not like I had a choice in the matter so I can hardly be held to account for responsibility for it.

I don't want to lie on my CV, but when things are against you and you have nothing to lose then needs must. I know it's an extreme example but if you are homeless and can't afford to eat and no access to support then no one is going to blame you if you steal a loaf of bread to survive.

Yes I know my situation isn't as dire as a homeless and hungry person, but my example was proportionate. I'm not saying I would lie and say I have a PhD in astrophysics, just to fill in gaps of long unemployment with basic/entry level roles that I have some sort of experience in, just to stretch them out to cover long periods.

BigAunty

A degree isn't for everyone and now that so many people achieve Uni level education, formerly non-graduate/entry level roles now require it. All the risks you have outlined are fair ones though I don't know what you mean about its impact on a 'meaningful' relationship.

If you graduate at the age of 35, you still have around 37 years of working life left, perhaps increasing to 40 if there are state pension changes, though.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

SpicyChickenBaguette wrote: »

If I am persuaded to take a degree, I would like to do one that has real prospects of a job - I hear so many people complain that they regret their degree or did it in the wrong subject area and that they struggle to find relevant jobs and/or can only find entry level minimum wage work.

Are there any subject areas with a near enough guaranteed job at the end of it? I wouldn't be interested in nursing or anything healthcare related as I've spent too much time in and around hospitals and sick of it to be honest.

No, there aren't any guaranteed jobs.

There are some degrees that massively enhance your prospects of a job, but they have particularly tight entrance requirements, because everyone wants to do them.

Once again you are asking for something obvious that everyone wants as though it's peculiar to you. Your question should be what degree you are personally capable of doing, and you or people who know you are the only ones who can answer that. As you have no academic qualifications beyond GCSE, it's can't be clear to anyone here whether you are capable of getting a degree at all, let alone being able to pick and choose.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

SpicyChickenBaguette wrote: »

So does everyone here have a degree that directly landed them a job then?

If you don't have a degree, how did you get to where you are now?

Considering a couple of people have mentioned how my patchy CV/work history will go against me, should I lie on my CV (as much as I can get away with)? I wouldn't ordinarily suggest doing it but seeing as I have nothing to lose at the moment (literally), I can't see the harm in doing it if it will improve the chances of an interview?

Leaving aside the moral implication, lying is only practically effective if you are sure (and I mean sure) you will get away with it.

BigAunty

SpicyChickenBaguette wrote: »

Hardly a case of not taking responsibility for something I had no control over, I was unemployed due to mental health problems, I wouldn't have employed myself with the state I was in. It's not like I had a choice in the matter so I can hardly be held to account for responsibility for it.
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I said 'responsibility for the consequences' so I meant the outcome in terms of accepting that your employment prospects have been damaged by the illness (that I agree, you weren't responsible for). I am challenging you about the path of least resistence to sidestep the consequences, ie weak CV, by lying rather than fix or accept the consequences. I apologise if this was not clear.

SpicyChickenBaguette wrote: »

I don't want to lie on my CV, but when things are against you and you have nothing to lose then needs must. .. ..just to fill in gaps of long unemployment with basic/entry level roles that I have some sort of experience in, just to stretch them out to cover long periods.

Again, I can see the temptation and the benefits. But ultimately you are lying and I'm not sure employers want liars. I don't know if what you are proposing (lying on your CV) is a criminal offence or not either, might be worth checking.

Its a real shame that some employers will not give some potential employees a chance, that they feel that the pattern of behaviour in the past that would have made them unreliable demonstrates the likely pattern in the future.

Have you looked into whether there are any charities that help people with MH/substance issues into employment? I have no expertise in this area but assume there are organisations that help find employment for vulnerable people with sympathetic and more open minded employers.

SpicyChickenBaguette

ScorpiondeRooftrouser wrote: »

No, there aren't any guaranteed jobs.

There are some degrees that massively enhance your prospects of a job, but they have particularly tight entrance requirements, because everyone wants to do them.

Once again you are asking for something obvious that everyone wants as though it's peculiar to you. Your question should be what degree you are personally capable of doing, and you or people who know you are the only ones who can answer that. As you have no academic qualifications beyond GCSE, it's can't be clear to anyone here whether you are capable of getting a degree at all, let alone being able to pick and choose.

You're right, perhaps I'm not capable of completing a degree. The only subject area I would say I am above average at is English (two A* grades at GCSE before I left) and I'm certainly not a numbers person. But my last period of study was 15 years ago, and it would be difficult to get back into that frame of mind again.

The impression I'm starting to get it from society in general is, unless you have a degree and the intelligence to match, you shouldn't expect much. I want what most other people want: my own mortgage home, a family, car, nice things etc but it just seems so out of reach for me.

I feel like I have no chance competing with 21 year olds with a normal CV, let alone 21 year olds that have a degree.

I can't get an apprenticeship because of my age. I have no skills to offer and no work experience beyond basic, entry level unskilled jobs.

Guess I'm destined to be stacking shelves for the rest of my life, and the very best I can hope for is rented accommodation, a £500 banger of a car, and a relationship with anyone that feels enough pity for me.

Seriously though, why are there so few opportunities for people with legitimate past mental health issues or disabilities? Why should an employer write me off or not give me a chance based on something I had no control over? Even if I did complete a degree or a qualification that made me eligible for a job and I was competing with a 21 year old fresh-faced graduate with the same qualification, shouldn't an employer not use my medical history against me when it was no fault of my own?

Life just seems so easy for some people.