PCN and Lease Company

robdl · 27 January 2016 at 11:38AM

Hi all, wondering if anyone can advise.

I've received a copy of a PCN which has been forwarded to us by our lease company (ALD Automotive). They've informed us that "we have made representation to the Parking Operator advising them that the vehicle is in your possession. [...] The Parking Operator should now re-issue the parking charge notice to you for payment or appeal."

PCN is from Euro Car Parks for overstaying in an Aldi car park for 11mins.
The date of issue was 31/12/2015
The PCN letter date was 05/01/2016
ALD's letter was dated: 13/01/2016

From reading the FAQs I couldn't work out what we should be doing. Should we wait to see if Euro Car Parks re-issues it (do they have a deadline to re-issue), or should we be begining the appeals process?

Any advice greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

ManxRed · 27 January 2016 at 11:42AM

No, wait for Euro Car Parks to write to you.

Let us know what the letter says, and whether it strangely alleges you were the driver, while the lease company has only told them the vehicle was in your possession, which isn't the same thing.

Edna_Basher · 27 January 2016 at 12:13PM

Firstly, well done to ALD Automotive for doing the right thing in passing on your details as "hirer" rather than paying the charge on your behalf and than reclaiming this from you (as some lease companies do).

Under the POFA legislation, Euro Car Parks must now deliver a compliant Notice to Hirer to you within a relevant period of 21 days beginning on the day after ALD provided them with your details as hirer.

Euro Car Parks aren't the sharpest tools in the box (a box in which there are plenty of tools to choose from) and they have a "one size fits all" letter which they send regardless of whether the recipient is the keeper, hirer or driver.

The letter you'll receive from Euro Car Parks will be hopelessly non-compliant as a Notice to Hirer and will claim that you were the registered keeper of the vehicle or that you have been named by the registered keeper as the driver when there was a breach of terms and conditions of parking.

With assistance from this Forum, Euro Car Parks are easy to beat.

Coupon-mad · 27 January 2016 at 12:47PM

Euro Car Parks aren't the sharpest tools in the box (a box in which there are plenty of tools to choose from)

Good point well made! :T:T:T

Umkomaas · 27 January 2016 at 1:42PM

Aldi and ECP are curious bedfellows. Ordinarily it's an Aldi/ParkingEye axis. I'm raising this in the context of you complaining to the retailer (in due course) - are there any other retailers on that site?

robdl · 5 February 2016 at 9:17AM

Thanks all for the replies, @Umkomaas there are a small number of other restaurants/retailers that are in the same complex (Church Farm, Stockton Heath).

Well with classic timing we received a PCN direct from Euro Car Parks yesterday (04/02/2016), although the letter is "dated" 29/01/2016 (don't know how they've sent it so that it took 7 days to arrive?!).

By my calculations ALD's letter was dated 13/01/2016, so +21 days would be 03/02/2016.

Extract from the PCN:

On the 31/12/15 you were the registered keeper of the vehicle: [CAR_REG_HERE]
Or you have been named by the registered keeper as the driver at the time of a breach of terms and conditions of parking.

The rest of the PCN I presume is just standard stuff they fire out, but let me know if it would help to see it in full.

Can anyone offer any advice on what to do next? I'm presuming that they've gotten away with the 21 day clause?

Really appreciate any advice, cheers.

Umkomaas · 5 February 2016 at 10:25AM

In the context of a hire vehicle, the PPC must issue a Notice to Hirer along with an additional number of documents, many more than that required of a standard NtK - as per PoFA 2012, Schedule 4, para 13. Check your documentation against this.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

I suspect ECP won't have the gumption to fully comply, but initially you should appeal as per the newbies sticky, but keep the para 13 stuff for POPLA - and this will be one of the main planks of your POPLA appeal.

Coupon-mad · 5 February 2016 at 2:27PM

PPCs never, ever include a copy of the hire documentation with the Notice they send out in this situation, so they are stuffed. Just needs pointing out at POPLA stage along with the usual other arguments that smash these PCNs - unless ECParks drop it sooner when they see the forum first appeal.

Be aware sometimes ECParks do not reply to a first appeal at all and when challenged later by people/the BPA, they produce a 'ghost' email no-one received...more than one occasion this has happened...weird that. But at least it normally confirms 'look we cancelled it ages ago'.

So, send the usual first appeal as hirer (online). Wait 35 days then follow it up if you've not got a POPLA code or cancellation and check your spam/junk email weekly.

robdl · 9 February 2016 at 3:27PM

Thanks Umkomaas & Coupon-mad.

Been reading the Newbie thread and just want to double check.. would I be best submitting an online appeal to Euro Car Parks online similar to the one that Edna Basher has written over here: "Late arrive of PCN for leased vehicle - Highview Parking" post #10 (sorry can't link).

Thanks so much

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=69859059#10

Coupon-mad · 9 February 2016 at 3:42PM

Yes, if Euro Car Parks have now sent you your own version of the PCN (as happened there).

robdl · 9 February 2016 at 4:00PM

Yes, we have our own copy of the PCN addressed to us. From that:

On the 31/12/15 you were the registered keeper of the vehicle: [CAR_REG_HERE]
Or you have been named by the registered keeper as the driver at the time of a breach of terms and conditions of parking.

There's no mention of us being a hirer. Should I check with the hire company what they've sent Euro Car Parks first or should I just submit something like the below to their online appeal form:
EDIT - And include copy of bank statement proving that the driver was a customer?

Dear Sir or Madam,

Parking Charge Notice [PCN_NUM_HERE]:
Vehicle Registration [CAR_REG_HERE]:
Date of Issue: 31/12/2015

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by Euro Car Parks Limited as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why Euro Car Parks Limited’s Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

Given that Euro Car Parks Limited has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Yours faithfully,

[HIRER NAME HERE]

Really appreciate all the help.

PCN and Lease Company

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free