PCN and Lease Company

Edna_Basher

Just a few small suggestions:

I'd use the date of the Notice to Hirer as the "Date of Issue", rather than 31/12/15.

I'd also give your letter the title "Formal Appeal". ECP have been a bit shirty with one of our recent challenges, trying to claim that our letter wasn't actually an appeal. Although this is total rubbish, don't give them the excuse to try the same trick with you.

There's no need to include copies of receipts - at this stage you're just looking for a POPLA code (or if your really lucky, to get ECP to cancel at the first hurdle).

Also, there's no need to contact the lease company; although they will have passed your details to ECP as "hirer", ECP are not sophisticated enough to recognise they should be using different wording when they send a "Notice to Hirer".

In your calendar, make a note of Day 35 after you submit your appeal. As C-M has highlighted, ECP have "form" for sending "ghost replies" (i.e. letters that they claim to have sent but which mysteriously never arrive).

robdl

Hi all,

Well 1 week ahead of Day 35, I've received a letter stating that they are rejecting my appeal. [STRIKE]Letter here.[/STRIKE] Sorry can't upload images, letter at end.

Any advice on what would be next best course of action would be appreciated,

Many thanks.

Breach of Terms and Conditions: A
Your vehicle was parked longer than the maximum period allowed

Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you we have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:

The above stated car park is operated by an Automatic Number Plate Recognition system — cameras capture images of every vehicle upon entry and exit of the car park and then calculate the length of their stay.

Signage is clear and drivers are subject to a maximum stay to ensure that the free parking is not abused. When parking on private land it is the responsibility of the driver to look for signage and to ensure that their vehicle is parked in accordance with the terms and conditions as stated.

The Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) does not alter the principle of driver liability. What it does do, is to allow proceedings against the registered keeper for unpaid parking charges when the landowner or their agent, the parking operator does not know who the driver was at the time. The creditor/operator must follow the procedures set out in PoFA Schedule 4 to achieve the benefits of keeper liability.

Any form of parking ticket or 'notice' is issued under the law of trespass and Contract Law'. A driver who is invited (or chooses) to park on private land and use the car parking facilities and pays a feels does so under a contract (signage) with the car park operator. The parking contract sets out the terms that apply to the parking service, including the price.

Please see the attached image of the signage on site that clearly states failure to comply with the car park regulations will result in the issue of a parking charge notice. It is clear from your communication that you did not read the signage at this site, which is your responsibility as the driver. Therefore I can confirm that the parking charge notice has been issued correctly and will remain payable.

Please make payment of the discounted amount of £50 by visiting our website at. Please note there is a £1.50 handling charge for credit and debit card payments. Alternatively make your cheque payable to Euro Car Parks Limited (to include a £2.50 handling charge for cheque processing) and post to Euro Car Parks Ltd, 30 Dorset Square, London, NW1 6QJ, quoting the PCN number on the reverse of the cheque.

Payment can also be made using our automated telephone service on 020 3553 4559 (no handling charge is applicable). This amount is now due and the charge will be held for 14 days to allow time to make the payment. If payment is not received by this time the charge will increase to £90 (plus applicable handling fee).

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.

You can make an appeal to The Independent Appeals Service (POPLA) within 28 days online at with the following reference number [STRIKE]REDACTED[/STRIKE]. Alternatively, if you wish to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service by post a copy of the appeal application can be sent at your request.

Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate will be at an end. If you opt to pay the parking charge notice you will be unable to appeal to POPLA. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

nigelbb

I assume that you just received a Notice To Hirer but to uphold keeper liability there are other necessary documents that the PPC must deliver as described in Paragraph 13 of POFA 2012 & failure to deliver any of the following sinks any claim on the hirer

13) 2 ...
(a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
(b) a copy of the hire agreement; and
(c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

Edna_Basher

The first step is to make sure that the POPLA Code provided by ECP is valid. The 4th, 5th and 6th digits are the most important and correspond to the date in 2016 that the code was generated (the 7th digit should be a 6).

For example:

2410016xxx - generated on 1st Jan 2016
2410326xxx - generated on 1st Feb 2016
2410616xxx - generated on 1st Mar 2016 etc.

The code will be valid for 28 days.

Then, the next step is to construct your submission to POPLA to explain why you ECP's charge is invalid. You'll get plenty of help from this forum with this.

We've had a couple of recent POPLA wins as "hirer" against ECP - I'll dig our appeal points which are likely to be relevant to your case.

Edna_Basher

Hi robdl

I’ve had a stab at drafting an introduction for your POPLA appeal, together with an appeal point regarding ECP’s non-compliant Notice to Hirer.

Some of your posts refer to “we” or “us” and so I’m not sure if you’ve appealed on behalf of someone else, or maybe on behalf of your company.

For the time being I’ve written this as if ECP’s PCN was written to you as an individual. The words will need to be tweaked if this was not the case.


“Dear POPLA Appeals Team,

POPLA Ref [241xxxxxxx]: Euro Car Parks Limited PCN Ref. [8888xxxxxxx]

I write to lodge my formal submission for Alternative Dispute Resolution of my dispute with Euro Car Parks Limited (“ECP”) regarding the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) dated 29th January 2016 in respect of an alleged breach of parking terms and conditions at [Location of Incident] on 31st December 2015. The above-detailed vehicle is on long-term lease to me and I confirm that I am the vehicle’s hirer and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”).

I set out below why I am not liable for this parking charge:

1) ECP failed to deliver a Notice to Hirer that was fully compliant with the requirements of POFA and consequently it has forfeited its right under POFA to hold the hirer liable for the charge.
2) [Other appeal points to be inserted]


1. ECP’s failed to meet the strict requirements of Schedule 4 POFA

In order to rely upon POFA to be able to hold the hirer liable, ECP had to deliver a Notice to Hirer that fully met all of POFA’s strict requirements. I set out below the reasons why ECP failed to do so.

ECP’s Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) stated that either a) I was the registered keeper of this vehicle on 31st December 2015 or b) I had been named by the registered keeper as the driver when there was a breach of terms and conditions of parking.

Neither of these statements was true because a) the vehicle’s registered keeper is the lease company, ALD Automotive and b) the registered keeper had provided ECP with my details as the vehicle’s hirer, not driver.

The relevant provisions concerning hire vehicles are set out in Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 of POFA; the conditions that the Creditor must meet in order to be able to hold the hirer liable for the charge are set out in Paragraph 14. Paragraph 14(1) of Schedule 4 of POFA specifies that if (a) the creditor is by virtue of Paragraph 13(2) unable to exercise the right to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges mentioned in the notice to keeper, and (b) the conditions mentioned in Paragraph 14(2) below are met, the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer.

Paragraph 14(2)(a) specifies that in addition to delivering a Notice to Hirer within the relevant period, the Creditor must also provide the hirer with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) (i.e. (a) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b) a copy of the hire agreement; and (c) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement), together with a copy of the Notice to Keeper (i.e. the notice that had originally been sent to the lease company (as Registered Keeper)). Notwithstanding its failure to deliver a Notice to Hirer, ECP did not provide me with copies of any of these documents.

Paragraph 14(5)(b) specifies that the Notice to Hirer must refer the hirer to the information contained in the Notice to Keeper. ECP’s PCN makes no reference to the Notice to Keeper, let alone referring the hirer to the information contained in the Notice to Keeper. This is a fundamental omission, especially given that ECP did not provide me with a copy of the Notice to Keeper as required under Paragraph 14(2)(a). Consequently, ECP failed to provide me with much of the information required to be included in the Notice to Keeper under Paragraph 9 (2).

Furthermore, ECP failed to comply with the requirements of Paragraph 14(5) including:

• Contrary to the requirements of Paragraph 14(5)(a), ECP’s PCN did not inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the Notice to Keeper) may be recovered from the hirer;
• Contrary to the requirements of Paragraph 14(5)(b), ECP’s PCN did not refer the hirer to the information contained in the Notice to Keeper (indeed, the PCN does not even refer to the Notice to Keeper);
• Contrary to the requirements of Paragraph 14(5)(c) ECP’s PCN did not warn the hirer that if, after the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to hirer is given, the amount of unpaid parking charges referred to in the notice to keeper under Paragraph 8(2)(f) or 9(2)(f) (as the case may be) has not been paid in full, the creditor will (if any applicable requirements are met) have the right to recover from the hirer so much of that amount as remains unpaid.
• Contrary to the requirements of Paragraph 14(5)(e) ECP’s PCN did not identify the creditor.

Given its failure to deliver a compliant Notice to Hirer, ECP’s claim must be determined as being invalid”.

robdl

Thanks so much nigelbb & Edna Basher; really appreciate you both taking the time to respond.

First my wife is the vehicle’s hirer, so the response will be from her. Looking at the POPLA code we have it appears to be valid.

Edna thanks so much for the appeal draft, will start from there. I'm planning on going out to the car park to double check the signage for any possible issues. But reading round the board am I right to assume I should just be adding the following standard appeal points:

• No genuine pre-estimate of loss
• The ANPR system is unreliable and neither synchronised nor accurate
• Proprietary Interest

Is there any other standard ones I should include? I wasn't sure about:

1. BPA CoP: Grace Period. (stated overstay was only 11mins)
2. Keeper Liability Requirements and the Protection of Freedom Act

Thanks again for all your help.

Fruitcake

robdl wrote: »

Thanks so much nigelbb & Edna Basher; really appreciate you both taking the time to respond.

First my wife is the vehicle’s hirer, so the response will be from her. Looking at the POPLA code we have it appears to be valid.

Edna thanks so much for the appeal draft, will start from there. I'm planning on going out to the car park to double check the signage for any possible issues. But reading round the board am I right to assume I should just be adding the following standard appeal points:

• No genuine pre-estimate of loss
• The ANPR system is unreliable and neither synchronised nor accurate
• Proprietary Interest

Is there any other standard ones I should include? I wasn't sure about:

1. BPA CoP: Grace Period. (stated overstay was only 11mins)
2. Keeper Liability Requirements and the Protection of Freedom Act

Thanks again for all your help.

Grace period is very relevant. The BPA CoP states there should be a grace period (of unspecified length) before parking, and a minimum of eleven minutes after the parking period has ended.


NTK not POFA 2012 compliant is your silver bullet since the PPC haven't sent you all the relevant docs with the NTK that they must include for a lease/hire vehicle.

nigelbb

Don't confuse the issue by throwing in a load of irrelevant appeal points. Concentrate on the text provided by Edna Basher that the PPC has not complied with POFA 2012 as they have not provided the necessary documents. Grace periods & signage are all matters of opinion but non-compliance with POFA 2012 is the law.

Coupon-mad

I would have 3 things after the text Edna Basher has given you:

-no landowner authority

- grace periods

- and one about unclear signs, in particular that the £ sum of the charge is not clear/legible in large lettering on the signs and there are no signs telling a driver how the data captured by ANPR will be used.

bod1467

Edna_Basher wrote: »

Firstly, well done to ALD Automotive for doing the right thing in passing on your details as "hirer" rather than paying the charge on your behalf and than reclaiming this from you (as some lease companies do).

I'll claim some small credit for my part in making sure ALD were made aware of their legal obligations.

(I raised a formal question [some time back] through my company's fleet manager to all the lease companies we use regarding parking charges. I think this may have added to the weight of evidence and played a part in getting them to operate correctly. For info, my company [as in the company I work for] is a global multi-billion dollar corporation who lease many cars in the UK, so we have some degree of clout).