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Apcoa ba02

Hi All
i have received a pcn from apcoa and after reading through the forum have come up with this as my first reply


Dear APCOA

PCN number BIAxxxxxxxxxx
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
4) Birmingham Airport is not "relevant land" for the purposes of POFA 2012 Schedule 4 therefore I cannot be held liable as keeper.


5) I am the keeper and your notice to owner is not compliant with POFA 2012. Therefore only the driver can be held responsible for this charge, not the registered keeper, and as keeper I have no legal obligation to name the driver.

Note: As you are pursuing the wrong person, you are advised that complaints are being prepared to submit to the BPA and DVLA and I suggest that you cancel this parking charge immediately to save further embarrassment.

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,


if anybody has any advice id appreciate it thanks
«134

Comments

  • Looks fine. Get it fired of.

    They'll most likely reject your appeal, and your threat of claiming costs, but you'll get the all important POPLA code - and that is the bit that will let you give them a kicking.
  • OBAone
    OBAone Posts: 31 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    In my view, this is ready to be sent off, however remember to get proof of postage.

    If it helps, this is the same initial appeal I sent to APCOA. You should expect them to reject it but will supply you with a POPLA code. You can then see them off once and for all at the POPLA stage. Also, when you've filed an appeal with POPLA, expect them to send an evidence pack with an appalling GPEOL list.

    I got the outcome of my appeal less than a fortnight ago. So don't lose sleep over this one; you are onto a winner here.
  • boxa55
    boxa55 Posts: 11 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    thanks its outrageous that these people are allowed to get away with doing this i can only imagine that they work on the assumption that a lot of people
    will just pay up because of the way the pcn is set out very official looking pics time stamps blah blah
  • OBAone
    OBAone Posts: 31 Forumite
    Seventh Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    boxa55 wrote: »
    thanks its outrageous that these people are allowed to get away with doing this i can only imagine that they work on the assumption that a lot of people
    will just pay up because of the way the pcn is set out very official looking pics time stamps blah blah


    Agree. I almost paid up for the sake of a quiet life. Thanks to the support I received on this site.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 155,731 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    @boxa55, you randomly started a new thread which isn't the best thing on this forum. Always post on your thread here and it bumps it back to the top (you can always find your thread by clicking on your username):

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/66765458#Comment_66765458

    That thread needs merging with this one so do send a pm to Crabman to ask him to merge them.
    boxa55 wrote: »
    hi all

    well after sending off my first response to apcoa i heard nothing until today when i received a letter demanding £150 from Debt recovery plus so my question is what now ?
    Your question is answered already in the newbies thread, post #6 of it tells you about who to complain to at the BPA by email.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • boxa55
    boxa55 Posts: 11 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    so let me get this right apcoa have ignored my letter of appeal and I've now received a letter from DRP my next step is to complain to DVLA and BPA correct ?
  • ampersand
    ampersand Posts: 9,692 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    You've rcvd DRP demand even before your popla appeal window has expired, or appeal is in?
    CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT &BUDGET HELP:
    01274 760721, freephone0800 328 0006
    'People don't want much. They want: "Someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work and something to hope for."
    Norman Kirk, NZLP- Prime Minister, 1972
    ***JE SUIS CHARLIE***
    'It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere' François-Marie AROUET


  • boxa55
    boxa55 Posts: 11 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    no I've received nothing back of apcoa i do have proof of postage as advised and now received DRP letter
  • ampersand
    ampersand Posts: 9,692 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    So, answering #7: YES and YES.

    You must be issued with a valid Popla code.
    CAP[UK]for FREE EXPERT DEBT &BUDGET HELP:
    01274 760721, freephone0800 328 0006
    'People don't want much. They want: "Someone to love, somewhere to live, somewhere to work and something to hope for."
    Norman Kirk, NZLP- Prime Minister, 1972
    ***JE SUIS CHARLIE***
    'It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere' François-Marie AROUET


  • boxa55
    boxa55 Posts: 11 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    i dont understand apcoa have not replied to me only DRP so i have no code
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