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  • FIRST POST
    • baby frogmella
    • By baby frogmella 22nd May 12, 8:24 AM
    • 1,517Posts
    • 798Thanks
    baby frogmella
    Potential Oil Pump / Balancer shaft problems on Audi A4 2.0 TDI
    • #1
    • 22nd May 12, 8:24 AM
    Potential Oil Pump / Balancer shaft problems on Audi A4 2.0 TDI 22nd May 12 at 8:24 AM
    Hi
    Sorry for the long post but hope you can give me advice. I bought my Audi A4 2.0 TDI 140PD (B7 chassis) from new in May 2005, its done around 55k and not had any problems with it so far. However this could all be about to change after reading the following on another forum:
    2.0TDi Oil Pump / Balancer shaft problems - the definitive guide! Audi VW Skoda SEAT

    Maybe this should be a sticky? Will clear up most of the common questions asked on all the VAG forums (ive been through them all while doing my A4 BLB balancer unit/pump):

    I spent some time on ETKA a while ago trying to figure out why some 2.0PD oil pump drives fail and some don't. The BKD, AZV & BMN 2.0 engines (which is what found their way into the 2.0 PD Octavia, A3, Golf, various Seats) used a chain driven oil pump very similar, but not identical, to the old 1.9 130hp PD engine. This never seems to give any problems. I can tell from ETKA these engines don't have a balancer shaft which I think is the key to it - it's the balancer shafts that cause the problems on the 'posher' VAG 2.0 PD diesels eg Passat, A4, Superb. By trying to make the engine more refined for the more expensive models they destroyed it's reliability in the process.

    Very briefly, the 2.0 PD differs from the 1.9 in having twin Lanchester balancing shafts which contra-rotate at 2x crank speed. The first engines used a chain drive which was a complete disaster (pictures on this website) and the later engines a gear drive. All 2.0 PD got the geared drive towards the end of 2005.

    The problem with the 2.0 PD engine is the drive from the slave balancer shaft to the oil pump, which is a piece of 6 AF hex bar which has inadequate engagement depth with the grooves in the slave shaft. It's the torsional oscillations caused by the balance shafts which destroy the oil pump coupling (the 6mm AF bit of hex) and the chain drive to the balancer shafts before the gear driven systems came out, though these still give problems with the hex key rounding. Think washing machine -> unbalanced load -> keep doing it = new machine.

    PSA had no problem at all driving their oil pump from the slave balancer shaft on the bigger HDi engines so it's poor VAG engineering at the bottom of it all - as usual.

    As I said earlier, the problem is with lack of concentricity of the drive socket into which the drive rod/hex fits. Since I've started looking at this problem, I've seen three cars where the drive socket is off centre by at least 0.1mm. In engineering terms, this is a massive defect. Since I've starting checking the concentricity, all the drive sockets in the
    failed units were off centre, but all the replacement balancer units were dead centre and have not led to a repeat failure in the people i have spoken too. Some replacement balancer units have now done 100k+ miles according to some garages.

    So, to sum up. You will get this problem at some point if you have a 2.0TDi WITH balancer shafts. If your 2.0TDi does NOT have balancer shafts, you will be ok. If you fit the lastest balancer shaft/ pump assembley from VAG it will more than likely cure the problem for life as they have made the hex longer and centered it all properly.

    Dealers do not admit any liability. You will not get any fiscal help with changing for the new balancer/pump unit. The fact that VAG have released and re-released different pumps/shafts/engines etc.. is "purely coincidence", according to Audi customer services! I am voting with my feet and never buying a VAG car ever again, they are not worth the extra money and the customer service is a disgrace. If you have this problem yourself, STOP driving the car. If you havent blown the turbo and your engine is not rattling you may get away with not replacing the lump, just the pump/balancer. If you havent had the problem yet and you do have a balancer shaft engine, I would advise either changing the balancer system now or getting rid of the car. From what i can assertain, CR engines are safe.
    Anything before that..well, Audi/VAG wont say exactley when they started to fit the units that actualy work properly.....

    GOOD LUCK!

    N.B. Thanks to all the contributers from across the VAG network and various garages
    So, assuming my A4 has a balancer shaft (which i'll get confirmed one way or another soon) its oil pump is doomed to fail sometime between 60k-100k probably destroying the engine in the process and giving me a huge bill of thousands of pounds. Of course, this might not happen at all and my car might continue to run until 200k without any problems but i'd rather be safe than sorry. Unfortunately selling the car is not an option as its been immaculately looked after and i cannot afford a new/nearly new car right now. So i'm thinking of taking the one of following options to minimise the cost:

    1) Pay my local Audi dealer 1.5k (local VAG specialist is only 50 quid cheaper) to get the balancer system changed, using new modified VAG parts

    2) Take out insurance through www.gocarwarranty.co.uk and pay 99 quid a year until the oil pump/balancer goes or 3 years (whichever comes first) and pray to god that this problem occurs within the 3 years. Car will have done less than 100k in 3 years time so wouldn't have any issues re: mileage

    3) A company in Germany apparently has a cure to this problem. They repair your old shaft, make the spline 2.3cm deeper, supply a new hexagonal shaft (10cm long) and for the price of 269 euros. But i presume this would mean asking my local garage to take bits off my engine and sending them off to Germany for modification?
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221027563854

    What should i do? (once i know for sure that my car has a balancer shaft system)

    Cheers
    Last edited by baby frogmella; 22-05-2012 at 8:27 AM.
Page 1
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 22nd May 12, 3:14 PM
    • 29,677 Posts
    • 12,200 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    • #2
    • 22nd May 12, 3:14 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd May 12, 3:14 PM
    If its doomed to fail how come so many 100k mile+ cars are for sale?

    The part will be wear and tear and probably excluded from the warranty so a waste of £99

    If your worried sell it?

    Im worried that the full service at ferrari is many thousands of pounds, I lay away all night worrying about it.
    But then i remember ferrari dont make mondeo's.

    Have you checked to see if you have the PD and those engine codes listed?

    Wonder how many failures are down to poor servicing? VW ahh it doesnt need servicing it has long life oil.

    Utter rubbish, Still change it every 6 000 miles or yearly.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • colino
    • By colino 22nd May 12, 3:48 PM
    • 4,936 Posts
    • 2,514 Thanks
    colino
    • #3
    • 22nd May 12, 3:48 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd May 12, 3:48 PM
    I'd be keeping the car well serviced and keep cocking an ear for the beginnings of any problems. Then you should upgrade the part or sell on.
    I think this is another example of accountant engineering where shaving tiny amounts off of components has created built-in obselescence. It is just a linking shaft after all, it shouldn't remotely be so under-engineered as to cause failure in the lifetime of the unit.
    • bigjl
    • By bigjl 22nd May 12, 10:21 PM
    • 6,261 Posts
    • 2,655 Thanks
    bigjl
    • #4
    • 22nd May 12, 10:21 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd May 12, 10:21 PM
    Lewis Day sued VAG over the mechanical problems they suffered with the fleet of over 100 Passat 20 TDis with DSG box, some problems where the gearbox going bang, some the DMF and some where engines going bang.

    Note that if the engine went bang under the manfacturers warranty they would fit a new engine for free, this might explain all the high mile VAG cars about, plus if big fleets find out about this kind of thing VAG will behave in a different way to the way they behave to the OP or similar, just basic economics for VAG.

    Always though VAG where overrated a bit, very good adverts and image, very well built inside, but as problematic as any other car and sometimes more troublesome, could you imagine if Rover had an issue like this the british press would have shouted loud and long, but most of the press are firmly in the "we love VAG club" so nothing but a stoney silence.

    Read WhatCar last week for the first time in years, a load of middle class luvvies having a VAG love-in, I think most of the journo's knew very little about cars after reading some of the articles and reports to be honest.
    • bigjl
    • By bigjl 22nd May 12, 10:22 PM
    • 6,261 Posts
    • 2,655 Thanks
    bigjl
    • #5
    • 22nd May 12, 10:22 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd May 12, 10:22 PM
    Don't forget that if you used the wrong oil on the earlier PD engines you wrecked the top end. Had to be a specific PD oil and nothing else.
    • baby frogmella
    • By baby frogmella 6th Jun 12, 4:02 PM
    • 1,517 Posts
    • 798 Thanks
    baby frogmella
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 12, 4:02 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 12, 4:02 PM
    Took my car to a local Audi/VW indy today and he seemed pretty certain that my car was likely to have this failure before reaching 100k (he's said he seen this happen on nearly every 2.0TDi PD 2005 B7 like mine) and said there's a 99% chance i will need a new engine when this happens. However he said no need to waste money by replacing the whole balancer shaft system now, just buy this kit and he will fit it which will take care of the problem.

    He also said its very important i go for oil change every 10k rather than variable servicing intervals (as is currently the case), he said the vast majority of problems he's seen with Audi engines are due to people getting oil changed too infrequently...which in my case can be as much as 18k miles!
  • pwcourier
    • #7
    • 15th Jan 13, 11:14 AM
    low oil pressure
    • #7
    • 15th Jan 13, 11:14 AM
    Hi new to this forum been reading some topics on the low oil pressure light on the Audi A4, i have the A4 2007 with just 73400 miles on the clock I got this car from an Audi dealer, had it service by Audi dealer the low oil pressure light came on, got the car taken to my local garage they tested it found no oil pressure at all, I have sent an email to Audi UK to see if they can help put the car right as the cost to have it repaired will be about 2K i believe that the engine is a BP,
    has anyone got anything out of Audi to help with the cost of the repaire

    thanks
    Peter
  • KarolMajewski
    • #8
    • 24th Jan 13, 11:32 PM
    Problems with Audi 2.0TDI
    • #8
    • 24th Jan 13, 11:32 PM
    Hello,
    I bought my Audi A4 S line (2008) 4 months ago and the number of repairs I had is just astonishing. All the issues you are mentioning involved with that engine happened to me. So far I've spent almost £4k to repair the car just to be told it might not last...

    I believe this is unacceptable as this is not a brand you would expect to disappoint you. When I called their customer service they wouldn’t acknowledge my problem even though they were clearly aware of the issues with the engine, thus, I decided to take things into my hands.

    So I decided to start up a Facebook Campaign against Audi. Audi is no longer a reliable brand. They screwing people over and they think there is nothing we can do about it. If you have ever got a problem with Audi or know anyone who have problems with that globally know car manufacturer please check and like my page...Empower the small man

    I would be very grateful if you could support my page, this is not a spam, I really want people to know about the problems with the 2.0 engine before they spend 10k. I would be very grateful if you could "like" my page, that’s all I'm asking for. Find my page of Facebook: "Audi dust Auto"

    You should also know that Audiis now recalling fuel injectors, hence if you have had such problems pleasecontact Audi Customer Service as they should do it free of charge.

    Best,
    Karol
  • KarolMajewski
    • #9
    • 24th Jan 13, 11:48 PM
    • #9
    • 24th Jan 13, 11:48 PM
    Hi new to this forum been reading some topics on the low oil pressure light on the Audi A4, i have the A4 2007 with just 73400 miles on the clock I got this car from an Audi dealer, had it service by Audi dealer the low oil pressure light came on, got the car taken to my local garage they tested it found no oil pressure at all, I have sent an email to Audi UK to see if they can help put the car right as the cost to have it repaired will be about 2K i believe that the engine is a BP,
    has anyone got anything out of Audi to help with the cost of the repaire

    thanks
    Peter
    Originally posted by pwcourier


    Hi Pete,

    I have been having the same problems. When I called Audi they told me they are happy for me to take my car to the Audi garage where they can run some tests to detect the problem. They would then need to send the results to the manufacturer in Germany, where they decide about the fault. I would obviously have to pay for the test, which is way too expensive for me... The customer service is absolutely useless... I did tell them that there are number of people complaining on different forums, their reply was that people shouldn’t take it to the online, but rather contact them, which obviously costs....

    I had no choice but to repair and cover the costs at the local garage, andthat was almost £2700. My car has done 87000miles… Apparently the engine cracks before it reaches 100K, there clearly is a problem, but they refuse to acknowledge that.

    Just to let you know, that Audi is now recalling fuel injectors, hence, if you have had such problems please contact Audi Customer Service as they should do it free of charge. I had it done 3 months ago…
    Last edited by KarolMajewski; 24-01-2013 at 11:53 PM.
    • mattyprice4004
    • By mattyprice4004 28th Jan 13, 12:42 PM
    • 4,326 Posts
    • 4,009 Thanks
    mattyprice4004
    Interesting information - makes you wonder how they get away with daft mistakes like this.

    My MG ZS has a direct drive oil pump - no messing about with balance shafts and the like. It's as tractory as anything, but given that I've owned 5 of the same engine in other cars without issue it makes you wonder if all this technological advancement is worth it - it's all the Accounts guys cutting costs as per.

    I've had the following on Rover's good old L series diesel without issue:
    - 140k
    - 170k
    - 113k
    - 150k
    - And currently on 137k in my current.

    All without major engine work, one had a turbo done before I owned it but the others were pretty much untouched. Try and do that today!
  • bigmalc
    An ideal campaign for martin
    As above, it occurs to me that Martin Lewis - The Peoples Champion - could do VAG good and proper with the Television and Media exposure he is privvy to. Here is another so called top quality brand failing miserably on all fronts, and we the long suffering public, footing the extortionate bill!!

    SO, HOW ABOUT IT MARTIN?

    I for one would be proud to work at your side/under your instruction, for the common good.

    Bigmalc.
    Last edited by bigmalc; 09-02-2013 at 3:10 PM. Reason: Martin spelled incorrectly
  • welshandproud
    re an ideal campaign for Martin
    My son bought an Audi a4 on 13 Feb 2013 two months later the oil pump balancer shaft broke, which put a hole in the bottom of the block.
    We only had a one month warranty on the car the garage are now trying to tell me that all that is needed for the car is a new turbo, and a oil pump, (I have a piece of timing chain and a piece of the oil block that came off the car) and if I would pay about £350 for the oil pump they would pay for the turbo! I have today sent them a letter asking for a full refund under the sale of goods act 1979. as I believe they are trying to pull the wool over my eyes.
  • RichCole
    Hi,
    This problem has just occurred to my 2007 Audi A6 with 80K on the clock. Current estimated repair bill by my local independent Audi specialist for a reconditioned engine, turbo, fuel pump assembly, sump, vacuum pump, seals filters labour etc etc is £5500-£6000! Cant believe it. Currently got a complaint in with Audi UK and are waiting for their response. Customer Services claim they know nothing about the problem and aren't willing to assist in any way. I'm going to go to Watch Dog, Trading Standards and seek legal advice if Audi UK don't help.

    This really should be safety recall - when the oil pressure fails - blowing the turbo and engine it also takes out the vacuum pump (which also drive the brake servo) and you struggle to stop the vehicle (as my wife found on the motorway with my two young children in the car!!!).

    I am so angry with Audi! Grrrrrrrr...
  • Cheeses of Nazreth
    OK - experienced the problem myself and have been quoted up to £4k to get the engine replaced. My letter has gone to Audi today but would be interested in understanding just how many people have been affected by this - if you are interested in joining forces to get Audi to accept what has happened then feel free to send me your diagnostic reports or garage quotes - happy to champion this cause for all those who have or may potentially have an issue - by my reckoning the problem will get worse for many of those owners who will over the next few years hit the mileage criteria or period of volatility - not sure if email addresses are allowed here, but open to suggestions to arrange contact.
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 12th Jun 13, 9:03 PM
    • 13,687 Posts
    • 8,656 Thanks
    arcon5
    As above, it occurs to me that Martin Lewis - The Peoples Champion - could do VAG good and proper with the Television and Media exposure he is privvy to. Here is another so called top quality brand failing miserably on all fronts, and we the long suffering public, footing the extortionate bill!!

    SO, HOW ABOUT IT MARTIN?

    I for one would be proud to work at your side/under your instruction, for the common good.

    Bigmalc.
    Originally posted by bigmalc
    Do you have any proper statistics or can you substantiate all of this that Martin can base it on? All we have at the moment is a bunch of negative experiences for a brand that's sold millions of motors.
  • TradePro
    Do you have any proper statistics or can you substantiate all of this that Martin can base it on? All we have at the moment is a bunch of negative experiences for a brand that's sold millions of motors.
    Originally posted by arcon5
    On this forum, VAG vehicles account for the majority of complaints/problems/issues - I find this is quite typical and not an isolated instance.

    Having worked with/for them, and a number of other brands as comparison, I definitely consider them poor, perhaps average on occasion.
    And that my son, is how to waft a towel!
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 13th Jun 13, 11:16 AM
    • 13,687 Posts
    • 8,656 Thanks
    arcon5
    On this forum, VAG vehicles account for the majority of complaints/problems/issues - I find this is quite typical and not an isolated instance.

    Having worked with/for them, and a number of other brands as comparison, I definitely consider them poor, perhaps average on occasion.
    Originally posted by TradePro
    I'm inclined to agree, my point merely being somebody in the position Martin is in isn't going to take a bunch of forum posts as gospel - to get Martin involved the poster I quoted would need actual and substantial evidence to support it.
  • tayzmastertayz
    Audi a4 2.0 tdi 55 plate oil pump chain tensioner broken hex bar rounded off
    This has just happened to me on friday. Oil pressure light on and loss of power. Stopped car after a mile. Got towed to garage and now have whole front of car removed. need a chain tensioner kit as tensioner plastic has broken up and was in bottom of sump. Hex shaft is slightly rounded off. Chain has rub marks where not tensioned. Hoping that turbo and engine are still ok as it sounded fine apart from slight intermittent sucking noise. Only done 64000 miles. Can't believe it.
    Don't know what this is going to cost me.
    Last edited by tayzmastertayz; 02-07-2013 at 7:42 PM.
  • Cviji
    I've had a 2004 A6 2.0TDI fail on me, its a fault that will go on those engines from 2004 through to 2006, and then apparently there is another fault on the later ones (much easier fix however).

    Oil pumps are something on the engine that should never fail, its a ridiculous design by Audi, when you phone them up and discuss it they act all innocent like yours is the first one to happen, once you ask alot of questions about it all of a sudden they know everything about it. Its a common fault but they refuse to accept responsibility for it because it would just cost them far to much money to put right..

    Believe me there is more than a few people this has happened to.
  • jlight
    In November 2012 I bought an 09 Passat Highline Estate 2.0 TDi 170ps CR CBBB with 89k miles, full dealer service history and one previous owner for £7800

    Two weeks ago, with 96k on the clock, no oil pressure warning light, just suddenly had a loss of power and a "tappety" noise from the engine.

    Drove to the garage and diagnostics reported throttle valve pump and inlet manifold, all of these were replaced. Was then advised to drive to a main dealer. On the way the car came to a juddering stop and wouldn't start again. So I pushed the car the final mile to the dealers (that's a heavy car!!). Diagnostics reported a fuel pressure sensor so this was replaced so they could hear it turn over. As soon as they did, they dropped the sump and reported that the oil pump had gone (hexagonal drive worn round) the big ends are off (one of which is cracked in half and the corners are worn away) and there's swarf in the oil.


    So with £1500 spent the dealer is quoting a further £6700 to replace the engine, all because of a hexagonal bolt, shorter than it should be with the longer bolt costing around £3!!

    There is never a good time for something like this to happen, however with the engine failing when my pregnant girlfriend was driving in 3 lanes of traffic and we were attending to critical family matters that involved a sudden bereavement I am rather annoyed and would happily share the full story if needed.

    This VAG oil pump issue isn't just limited to older engines, it's affecting newer CR engines too.
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