Faulty sofa from furniture village.

owain_glyndwr_2 · 14 February 2010 at 12:49PM

Hi all,
We are currently in a dispute with furniture village over a leather sofa we purchased 4 years ago.
About 2 years into it's life the leather started to crack, but we thought nothing of it. then a piece of the leather started to peel off.
At this point we rang funiture village and they sent somebody out to look at it "out of courtesy", even tho it is still under warranty. Their guy painted where the leather had peeled and glued down the surrounding areas.
The peeling continued but furniture village refused to do anything about it. We got in touch with trading standards who supplied us with letters to send off to furniture village, who eventually sent out the same guy. all he did was take pictures.
We requested an independent upholsterer to look at it and they sent somebody out who was at great pains to stress that he was independent - but paid for by FV - (but we cant find any details about them on the net / yellow pages - SEFTON UPHOLSTRY). From the way he was talking it looks like he will try to put the blame on us saying we havn't cared for the sofa correctly.
We will be paying somebody ourselves to write a report on the sofa.
We have since found out the sofa isn't even leather, but bicast, and this peeling is very common. Had we known this we wouldnt have purchased it!
where do we stand here? the sofa cost us £1000 but is now 4 years old, how much should we settle for?

mlost · 8 April 2010 at 4:58PM

Purchased Suite from furniture village Trafford Park Manchester together with 5 year insurance.

After 4 years, even with proper care and cleaning, the top layer of the leather started peeling off.

The product sales brochure stated that it was "Real Leather" (I have a copy). Found out that the leather was "Bicast Leather" i.e. reconstituted leather fibers with a PVC coating on top. It is this PVC coating that was peeling of the sofa in several places.

Spoke to Manager who said it wasn't covered as the 5 year warranty only covers sofa structure not leather. Insurance is no help either as only covers accidental damage.

Beware. The sofa you purchase may not last more than 4 years due to poor quality coverings and you will not have any recourse.

Always ask what "real leather" is. Bicast leather is usually shiny and will scratch easily when you gently run your finger nails over it.

anotherlaura · 25 August 2010 at 4:24PM

Hi, was wondering if you had any joy with compensation for this? They ought to at least replace the sofa. One of my 2 Scala leather sofa's started to peel on just one seat. After much tooing and fro-ing I eventually got a replacement sofa. Now the second sofa has started to peel on the back of one seat, and i am waiting for an appointment for their upholsterer to look. I am of course expecting a new sofa if they are unable to repair it satisfactorily. I certainly expected a 'real leather' sofa costing nearly £1000 to last more than 4.5 years!

redwineguzzler · 25 August 2010 at 7:02PM

Can I please ask what "range" of leather sofa you purchased, as we are experiencing similar problems, incidentally we have had our sofa's for 4 years in October.
Thanks

livewire100 · 25 August 2010 at 9:07PM

According to Wikipedia:

"The use of the term "leather" in relation to this bicast treatment is considered a misrepresentation and therefore not permitted in the United Kingdom and New Zealand "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicast_leather

Don't know if that's true, though

malchish · 14 October 2010 at 1:15PM

This is very improtant! :mad:We discovered the FV scam about bycast in 2009, when they sold us set of "genuine leather chairs" really made of bycast. We complained, they were horrible, and we applied to trading standards. Of course, the refund was then given tyo us, and Trading standards made them to withdraw "leather" description. Trading standards were, however, reluctant to use some of our evidence, and exercised very soft approach with FV. In fact, misdescription with the way to profit is a criminal offence punisheable by 12 months in prison, It is the same as selling fake gold as gold - a single rogue trader will be imprisoned for such actions. FV were misleading lots of people presenting the manmade material "bycast", made of some glued-together leather dust covered by plastic, as genuine leather.
I have collected lots of evidence about FV and their actions, so if you want a full refund from them, there is evidence that their practice was unfair, and you are entitled to your money back!!!:mad:

malchish · 14 October 2010 at 1:17PM

The offence FV committed deserves prosecution, not just refund.

fthl · 14 October 2010 at 9:19PM

I think that there is a regulation or SI that defines when leather can be called leather and what some of the different types are. I forget what it is though. Contact the British leather technical centre - they'll know. Never heard of bycast - is this just another name for corrected grain to split leather (both being acceptable)?

malchish · 28 October 2010 at 9:50PM

There is a standard to what can be called leather in the UK, it runs into several pages and can be found on the internet. There is also a company called "leather institute" (I think), they do testing.
By-cast is not leather. It is a man-made material, where the top layer is PU, and the bottom layer - desintegrated particles of some leather, glued together. Sold by rolling meter. Cheap, nasty material. Cannot withstand high temperatures.
Furniture Village were so arrogant - they sold it with leather hide symbol!!! And their salesmen told the whole load of rubbish about that they only sell real leather!
Trading standards did not want to prosecute (why? guess?), but they stopped the unfair adverts. Now, if you look, for example, at Boston range of furniture, that by-cast is not described as leather any more. There was no recall, so people who bought prior to 2009 Trading Standards ruling, are at the moment using that furniture. They are all entitiled to their FULL refund for misdescribed goods. Obtaining money by deception or unfair description could be possible applicable criminal offences.

malchish · 28 October 2010 at 9:56PM

The official definition by Leather Technology centre:

In the early editions it was sufficient to distinguish between leather and products made from
reconstituted leatherboard and patent leather. However, with the development of polymer technology
the surface coatings applied to leather for decorative purposes, to protect the grain surface from
abrasion, or to improve water resistance tend to become thicker. This raises the question of when does
leather cease to be leather and become a composite of two or more laminates? There is no obvious or
simple scientific answer. After much discussion and study of the types of products on the market the
International Council of Tanners suggested certain arbitrary distinctions which were subsequently
incorporated in the 1983 revision of BS 2780. These are reproduced as follows:

No. 159 Leather

Hide or skin with its original fibrous structure more or less intact, tanned to be imputrescible. The hair
or wool may or may not have been removed. It is also made from a hide or skin that has been split into
layers or segmented either before or after tanning.

Note 1: If the leather has a surface coating, the mean thickness of this surface layer, however applied,
has to be 0.15mm or less. See 56, 156, 189, 190 and 191.

Note 2: If the tanned hide or skin is disintegrated mechanically and/or chemically into fibrous particles,
small pieces or powder and then, with or without combination of a binding agent, is made into sheets or
forms, such sheets or forms are not leather.

No. 56 Coated Leather

A product where the surface coating applied to the leather substrate does not exceed one-third of the
total thickness of the product, but is in excess of 0.15mm.

Note: If the surface appearance is shiny, the term ‘patent coated leather’ is permissible (see 189).

No. 156 Laminated Leather

(a) A composite of two or more layers of leather.
(b) A composite of a layer of leather and one or more layers of another sheet or film of plastics or
other material.

Note: The term is applied to products that are excluded from the definitions of leather (see 159) and
coated leather (see 56). The components should be identified according to the proportion they form of
the total thickness, eg, leather/polyurethane laminate if the leather component exceeds 50%.
Other definition problems in the leather industry which often cause confusion at retail
level relate to embossed or printed leathers and sheepskins.
The visually appealing and unusual markings found on reptile, snake and avian skins,
which are a scarce commodity and sometimes not available through the implementation of
the Washington Convention on Endangered Species, have attractions in the market place.
Imitations, therefore, are produced by printing or embossing patterns on other more
common species such as bovine or ovine hides/skins. This is covered in the foreword to
ES 2780: 1983 as follows:
“if leather made from the hide or skin of one animal is made to look like the
hide or skin of a different animal, the name of this second animal may only
be used to describe the leather if the name of the hide or skin actually used is
also clearly stated. This is done by using the name of the animal imitated as
an adjective and the name of the actual hide or skin as a substantive, eg.
sheep leather that has been finished to look like peccary may be termed
‘peccary grain sheep’ but not ‘peccary’ alone.”
Today innovators have produced a wide range of speciality effects resembling, for
example, basket weave, by similar techniques.
In accordance with the official definition given in the glossary ‘sheepskin’ in the retail
trade has come to mean products made from the skin of a wool bearing sheep processed
into leather whilst still bearing the original wool. Many simulated sheepskins are made - at
worst they are a combination of a pile fabric lining and flocked PVC, at best a pile fabric
lining and a sueded leather, usually bovine flesh splits, but occasionally sueded sheep
leather. These products should not be described as sheepskin.
Wool bearing sheep have been specifically mentioned because in some tropical countries
sheep have hair rather than wool. The skins from these animals are processed to make
high quality gloving and fine apparel leathers.
Finally, we should stress that all suede is leather, but not all leather is suede. The term
‘suede’ refers to a type of finish originally applied to leather produced in Sweden which
had had the grain layer (the outer surface of a hide or skin after hair/wool removal)
removed and a fine nap raised by mechanical action. Although normally today suede is
made from either the original flesh surface of a hide/skin, or one exposed by splitting
laterally the hide or skin into two layers, the grain surface is sometimes abraded to give a
very fine suede effect usually called nubuck, but sometimes referred to as degrained
leather.
For further help and advice on leather descriptions and definitions please contact

BLC Leather Technology Centre Limited (see over for details).

fthl · 29 October 2010 at 9:51AM

There was no recall, so people who bought prior to 2009 Trading Standards ruling, are at the moment using that furniture. They are all entitiled to their FULL refund for misdescribed goods.

Personally, I don't agree with this statement due to s35 of the SoGA. I think the consumers will be deemed to have accepted the goods.

Faulty sofa from furniture village.

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