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  • FIRST POST
    slovan
    Proof wirral council admit council tax unlawful
    • #1
    • 3rd Sep 09, 12:36 PM
    Proof wirral council admit council tax unlawful 3rd Sep 09 at 12:36 PM
    OK – so now the cracks are really beginning to appear.
    I am indebted to my good friend and fellow Freeman on the land, for allowing me to use his documentation for this:-
    Let me fill you in on the background so you have the case history:-
    “Jim” (As we will call him”) is a Freeman on the Land along with us (More on that here www.TPUC.org & www.thinkfree.ca) – and a few months back he decided (Like many of us) that he wasn’t going to pay the UNLAWFUL Council tax that they were trying to enforce upon him via thier unlawful statute legislation. So he stopped paying:-
    In due course he started receiving the threatening letters until one day the “summons” appeared on his doormat. (Note: A summons is merely an invitation to attend their place of business to discuss a punishment – its an offer – Read more - just as the Council Tax Bill is an offer to contract with them – read more on this)

    The “invitation” was to appear before Wirral Magistrates Court for a hearing concerning the issuing of a liability hearing. Now as we all now ALL magistrates courts are merely a trading styles of the “run for profit” company called “Ministry of Justice” – see below and you can get a copy of the document I have acquired clearly showing:-
    1. The corporate status of the Ministry of Justice
    2. The Directors (Lord Falconer of Thoroton & Others)
    3. The fact that Ministry of Justice has County Court Jugements against it
    4. The trading styles of MOJ (Top right – which includes “Magistrates Courts”
    MINISTRY OF JUSTICE IS A BUSINESS
    http://www.nocounciltax.com/content/images/MOJ_1.jpg
    Now call me blonde but I would say this is pretty damned conclusive that we are dealing with a corporate court convened by a corporation to simply lift money from you and I.
    So … “Jim” jotted the council a little letter which is shown below:-
    FIRST LETTER TO WIRRAL COUNCIL
    http://www.nocounciltax.com/content/images/RGWCC_1.jpg

    Jim sent this letter about THREE WEEKS before the date that the hearing was due to be heard on.
    So … the DAY BEFORE the hearing, Jim received a phone call from the Wirral Council LEGAL DEPARTMENT and what they said was staggering …

    THEY WERE GOING TO WITHDRAW THE APPLICATION FOR A LIABILITY ORDER!
    1. Now this is incredible that on the back of one letter they decide to withdraw and more importantly confirms the following:-
    2. Council tax is UNLAWFUL, as you and I well know that if these leeches had once ounce of a lawful case for taking this money then they would fight it to the death
    They KNOW Council Tax is unlawful and are simply robbing those who haven’t woken up to the facts yet to the tune of 140,000,000,000 per annum (thats 140 BILLION of our money!)
    So, Jim being the experienced fellow he is – asked them to email him with confirmation that they were going to withdraw and printed below is their email.
    WIRRAL COUNCIL CONFIRMATION OF WITHDRAWAL BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO LAWFUL CASE
    http://www.nocounciltax.com/content/images/RGWCC_2.jpg

    Jim then asked for further clarification in a formal letter and here is the letter that they sent!
    LETTER FROM WIRRAL COUNCIL CONFIRMING THEIR WITHDRAWAL FORM COUNCIL TAX LIABILITY HEARING
    http://www.nocounciltax.com/content/images/RGWCC_3.jpg

    Then Jim asked them to confirm in writing that because there was now NO LIABILY that the council tax was no longer due
    This is the letter they and this is probably (in my opinion) one of THE single most important documents in the fight against Council Tax as it PROVES beyond ANY DOUBT that we DO NOT HAVE TO PAY this UNLAWFUL COUNCIL TAX.
    Look at the bit in red!

    LETTER FROM WIRRAL COUNCIL CONFIRMING THAT COUNCIL TAX DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PAID
    http://www.nocounciltax.com/content/images/RGWCC_4.jpg

    So not believing a word of the Council or the courts Jim rocked up to the court on the morning of the Liability hearing and standing as a Freeman on the Land asked the Judge to confirm the withdrawal of the other side which the Judge duly confirmed. The judge then told Jim that he needn’t have turned up and then Jim hit with it.
    “I know that sir, but there is the small matter of mys costs”
    BAM! – They were not expecting that one!
    So, Jim has now duly entered a claim for costs of 1,400 against Wirral Council which is still ongoing at this time as the courts are trying to play silly !!!!!!s with Jim – he has even had one judge step down and refuse to adjudicate in favour of his costs – as you can see – its a stitch up!
    Anyway – Jim has some other things planned and I will keep you abreast of developments but there you have it.

    A UK Council running away from a court hearing because they KNOW they dont have a LAWFUL leg to stand on and the whole Council Tax is a scam to relieve you and I of money and use it to
    • A) Line the pension funds of civil servants
    • B) Keep us opressed
    • C) Pay of the interest on loans to the bank and the IMF
    If you think that Council Tax pays for your bins or the Police – then you are very misguided I am afraid.

    GAME ON!
    Last edited by slovan; 03-09-2009 at 12:50 PM.
Page 1
  • slovan
    • #2
    • 3rd Sep 09, 1:25 PM
    • #2
    • 3rd Sep 09, 1:25 PM
    just follow the second letter and make your own template

    remember you're ONLY ASKING THEM

    you are doing nothing unlawful
    • LeeSouthEast
    • By LeeSouthEast 3rd Sep 09, 1:34 PM
    • 3,768 Posts
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    LeeSouthEast
    • #3
    • 3rd Sep 09, 1:34 PM
    • #3
    • 3rd Sep 09, 1:34 PM
    Having read those scans, I can't see this as working for the majority of people here. Granted I've only read the thread once, but i t seems to refer to a very specific set of circumstances, and does not absolve him of future liability (i.e. next year's council tax).
    Starting Debt: ~20,000 01/01/2009. DFD: 20/11/2009
    Do something amazing. GIVE BLOOD.
  • slovan
    • #4
    • 3rd Sep 09, 1:38 PM
    • #4
    • 3rd Sep 09, 1:38 PM
    Having read those scans, I can't see this as working for the majority of people here. Granted I've only read the thread once, but i t seems to refer to a very specific set of circumstances, and does not absolve him of future liability (i.e. next year's council tax).
    Originally posted by LeeSouthEast

    Lee did you read the scanned letters? did you read Wirral councils reply and the letter sent to them asking to prove contract?

    and the part marked in red

    LETTER FROM WIRRAL COUNCIL CONFIRMING THAT COUNCIL TAX DOES NOT HAVE TO BE PAID
    http://www.nocounciltax.com/content/images/RGWCC_4.jpg

    this letter follows their threat of court for unpaid bill!

    if you understand the law behind this you will know it applies to everyone

    also I notice you have 9200 'owed' on a Barclayplus loan
    have you read Mary Crofts free ebook on writing off debt to banks? http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rlz=1R2GGLL_en-GB&q=mary+croft&meta=
    Last edited by slovan; 03-09-2009 at 1:54 PM.
    • andrew-b
    • By andrew-b 3rd Sep 09, 2:06 PM
    • 2,504 Posts
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    andrew-b
    • #5
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:06 PM
    • #5
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:06 PM
    ...however you look at it "jim" has evaded paying tax. Council tax evaders should be made to collect the bins IMO and clean the maggots out after! Then the rest of us needn't pay as much council tax for the bin men or pay more next year because "jim" didn't pay his council tax last year.

    If you don't like the laws of the country emigrate

    No idea what any of this has to do with this section of the forum though?
    • LeeSouthEast
    • By LeeSouthEast 3rd Sep 09, 2:14 PM
    • 3,768 Posts
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    LeeSouthEast
    • #6
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:14 PM
    • #6
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:14 PM
    Yes I did read them. The letters confirmed that for the tax year 2009/2010 there is nothing to pay. It made no mention of future liability.
    Starting Debt: ~20,000 01/01/2009. DFD: 20/11/2009
    Do something amazing. GIVE BLOOD.
    • WestonDave
    • By WestonDave 3rd Sep 09, 2:18 PM
    • 5,038 Posts
    • 8,521 Thanks
    WestonDave
    • #7
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:18 PM
    • #7
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:18 PM
    To me this seems to hinge on a Dun and Bradstreet search result showing a council under the heading "company" being proof that the council is a profit making organisation. I suspect any success on this path is purely down to the fact that it will cost more to deal with than it will recover.

    Dun and Bradstreet is a credit rating agency and it includes councils because organisations trading with the council (e.g. selling materials to them) tend to carry out credit checks. If the premise of this is right then charities which come up under similar searches on D & B are also profit making organisations. Try doing a D & B search for a well known charity!

    What is really happening here is that in a one off case for 500 it is not worth spending 2000 on legal fees to pursue it. Withdrawal of a case to collect council tax does not create a legal precedent that others can follow as MSE users should know only too well from the bank charges cases. If a decent amount of momentum starts to follow this the LGA will get together to fund a case against someone to create a precedent and stop this nonsense.
  • slovan
    • #8
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:24 PM
    • #8
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:24 PM
    To me this seems to hinge on a Dun and Bradstreet search result showing a council under the heading "company" being proof that the council is a profit making organisation. I suspect any success on this path is purely down to the fact that it will cost more to deal with than it will recover.

    Dun and Bradstreet is a credit rating agency and it includes councils because organisations trading with the council (e.g. selling materials to them) tend to carry out credit checks. If the premise of this is right then charities which come up under similar searches on D & B are also profit making organisations. Try doing a D & B search for a well known charity!

    What is really happening here is that in a one off case for 500 it is not worth spending 2000 on legal fees to pursue it. Withdrawal of a case to collect council tax does not create a legal precedent that others can follow as MSE users should know only too well from the bank charges cases. If a decent amount of momentum starts to follow this the LGA will get together to fund a case against someone to create a precedent and stop this nonsense.
    Originally posted by WestonDave
    HI Dave not true I'm afraid

    the council along with others is trading as private corporation with shareholders - run for profit in other words, through revenue collection

    as the Ministry of Justice is too, ias evidenced by the report in the first link - it even shows a CCJ was issued against it as a business on 16/12/2008! ......

    http://www.nocounciltax.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/MOJ_1-724x1023.jpg

    here's one showing Lancashuire Council doing the same and operasting as a privarte corporation - meaning you need to contract with it to pay council tax - no contract = no bill

    Investigation into Lancashire County Council, the Blues and Twos Credit Union Ltd and Lancashire Police.
    http://www.tpuc.org/node/588

    Lancashire County Council is registered. The full number is IP00666c (FSA no. 666C)
    All of the Assets and Liabilities of LCC were transferred on November 12th 2007 to another company called the The Blues and Twos Credit Union Ltd.

    The registered address of this company is Lancashire Police Headquarters, PO Box 77, Hutton, Preston. They now own all of LCCs assets and liabilities
    Last edited by slovan; 03-09-2009 at 2:37 PM.
    • WestonDave
    • By WestonDave 3rd Sep 09, 2:30 PM
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    WestonDave
    • #9
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:30 PM
    • #9
    • 3rd Sep 09, 2:30 PM
    Err - the fact that there is an industrial and provident society called Lancashire County Council Credit Union Limited does not make that corporate body Lancashire County Council! The assets of LCCCU Ltd may well have been transferred but that has nothing to do with the local authority other than they may well have set up a "trading" company to run the credit union. Doesn't prove anything other than those who are behind this are adding 1+1 and getting 50,000!
    Adventure before Dementia!
  • ginvzt
    so, lets have council to stop all services to 'jim' - no rubbish collection, no police coverage, nothing. Will see how long 'jim' will enjoy his saved 500, when he will have pay himself for the removal or not of all his rubbish.
    Spring into Spring 2015 - 0.7/12lb
  • alternative-answer
    Having read those scans, I can't see this as working for the majority of people here. Granted I've only read the thread once, but i t seems to refer to a very specific set of circumstances, and does not absolve him of future liability (i.e. next year's council tax).
    Originally posted by LeeSouthEast
    Council tax in it's current format is being enforced illegally, this year, next year and every subsequent year and therefore NOT payable.
    We must become the change we seek in the world.
    - Mahatma Ghandi -
    • LeeSouthEast
    • By LeeSouthEast 3rd Sep 09, 7:47 PM
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    LeeSouthEast
    Righto. I'll carry on paying mine, if it's all the same. I like my bins emptied, my libraries open, and police on the end of 999.
    Starting Debt: ~20,000 01/01/2009. DFD: 20/11/2009
    Do something amazing. GIVE BLOOD.
  • capability brown
    HI Dave not true I'm afraid

    the council along with others is trading as private corporation with shareholders -
    Originally posted by slovan
    Could you post up evidence that Wirral Council actually have shareholders, and could you please name them? Also, what dividend they received last year?
    Last edited by capability brown; 03-09-2009 at 7:54 PM.
  • slovan
    QUOTE from 'smoke n mirrors':

    "however you look at it, the council have been extenuating money from every home owner for years.

    If they spent the money wisely, the bin men would visit once a week everywhere in the UK.

    They would should never have privatised the rubbish collection.

    That way we would pay less because we wouldn't be paying shareholders profits.

    If the council were operating within a legal frame work, they would have been paid.

    The fact that Jim refuses to pay money to a corporation, that is corrupt is to the benefit of us all.

    Maybe if more people woke up to the scams, pulled by local and national government we wouldn't be in the mess we find ourselves today"
  • puddy
    but no system is perfect, if people were that bothered about the privatisation of their services, which has been going on for years, then there would be more independents standing for mp and local councillors and more people voting for them. we are as a nation, apathetic, therefore we cope with what we are given. im more than happy to pay for the services i receive even though they are not perfect. i would not be able to buy those services for the price of my council tax.

    what job does jim do by the way?
  • MTField
    The level of knowledge of some on here is typical of people who've spent a lifetime sucking up all the distractions of life that the system has thrown at them.

    I suggest they keep it zipped and go back to watching sports, drinking beer, getting married and breeding whilst remaining good little subservient debt slaves.

    First of all, neither personal taxation (income tax) nor council tax goes towards paying for ANY local services. As someone has correctly mentioned, it simply pays the interest on the money LOANED to the government by the private company known as the Bank of England. Always has, always will. The ramifications of this little revelation are immense and mean that by design, their CAN NEVER be enough money in circulation to pay the debt back. So, essentially we are trapped by some very clever and determined people in a system which was instigated to keep the vast majority poor whilst filtering the money to the elite at the top. No, not conspiracy, fact. And the sooner those in the dark wake up the better as time is short now.

    To the best of my knowledge, corporation tax or business tax is used to fund our social services. Bin men, schools etc. etc.

    So, good on this man for standing up for his rights! Long overdue is what I say. We are all coerced into becoming part of a deception by power hungry fools who are now well and truly in control as they've been making the rules for the last century (AND MORE). The police force serves as nothing more than the elites enforcement arm, and really does little more than issue and collect illegal fines and penalties for trivial things which it deems to be offences. Speeding, etc etc.

    If this offends anybody's sensibilities then GOOD! As I said, time is short so go and arm yourselves with a true and accurate version of the world you and your kids live in because the sad reality is, people who are still in the box and don't see are used to police those that do.

    How can people not see what's going on here? Are you blind? I swear it takes more effort now to keep you head in teh sand than to open your eyes. Stop indocrinating each other with the same old rubbish and WAKE UP!gl
    • LeeSouthEast
    • By LeeSouthEast 8th Sep 09, 2:10 PM
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    • 2,948 Thanks
    LeeSouthEast
    Excellent. I'm off to drink beer and may then consider breeding if there is sufficient available credit on my 14th credit card to buy her a MaccyD Special.

    The police force serves as nothing more than the elites enforcement arm, and really does little more than issue and collect illegal fines and penalties for trivial things which it deems to be offences. Speeding, etc etc.
    Originally posted by MTField
    I'll be sure to remember that the next time they talk a son or daughter down off a cliff. Insensitive clod.
    Last edited by LeeSouthEast; 08-09-2009 at 2:12 PM.
    Starting Debt: ~20,000 01/01/2009. DFD: 20/11/2009
    Do something amazing. GIVE BLOOD.
  • MTField
    It speaks volumes sir that your mind chose to focus on, comment on and quote my simplification of the police force. I had taken it as read that someone with a modicum of intelligence would comprehend that the police also help out when the chips are down too.

    I'd also be delighted to hear your comments on the Bank of England loaning the money in circulation to the government of the day in return for interest on this loan which is actually paid for through the income tax system currently in operation in the UK. Any thoughts?

    Or perhaps on my comments about those that don't see being used to police those that do. Ahem!

    LeeSouthEast, I hope you've stocked up on beer. Maybe you should consider a second fridge?gl
    • LeeSouthEast
    • By LeeSouthEast 8th Sep 09, 10:01 PM
    • 3,768 Posts
    • 2,948 Thanks
    LeeSouthEast
    Not a bad idea. Tesco have an offer on at the moment!
    Starting Debt: ~20,000 01/01/2009. DFD: 20/11/2009
    Do something amazing. GIVE BLOOD.
    • andrew-b
    • By andrew-b 8th Sep 09, 10:35 PM
    • 2,504 Posts
    • 3,585 Thanks
    andrew-b
    Stop indocrinating each other with the same old rubbish
    Originally posted by MTField
    If anyone should stop indoctrinating it's you and your friend slovan and "jim" - probably all the same person anyway judging by you've not seen the need to join or post here before (and it took you two days to come up with that!!). What has any of this to do with this section of the forum though i'm still not sure. To be honest any credibility of this "no council tax" campaign is lost...this is the wrong way of trying to indoctrinate your own views towards others. Nothing is certain in life but death and taxes..get over it!
    Last edited by andrew-b; 08-09-2009 at 10:45 PM.
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