Burnt clutch - hire vehicle

Hi

I had recently rented a Talento (10 seater) from Green motion and I'm now being charged 400 + 2200 pounds for a windscreen damage and a burnt clutch.

Basically, I rented the vehicle on a friday night from Gatwick, the vehicle was shown as fit for renting with no issues in the standard forms that they generate for their fleet when they rent them out. But they said since it was dark to closely examine anything in detail if I find any significant damage, I should be reporting it the next day before 10 am. I drove the vehicle from Gatwick to Tonbridge (32 miles), admittedly there wasn't any smell in the vehicle at that time. The next day morning I again drove the vehicle back to Crawley (nearly same distance), but on the way back there was a strong smell in the vehicle. Dismissing it for some outside roadworks (happening at that time), managed to return to tonbridge. However, that afternoon when I took the vehicle out the smell was again there, which is when I felt there was something not right. Then it was reported to the Assistance people, the guys after doing some checks and test drives commented it definitely smells like clutch but there appears to be no issues with the mechanics as it drives fine.
However, I insisted for a replacement vehicle and green motion after checking the reports from the roadside assistance company agreed to replace it with an another talento that same night.
When I was there to pick up my replacement vehicle, the people on duty initially said the only Talento that they had, had a windscreen damage to it and so it can't be rented out. But then after few minutes, they came back to me and said actually the damaged vehicle was already sent out to garage and the vehicle they had was fit for renting. In a desperate need for vehicle it never struck me to double check the windscreen at that hour. But then when I returned the vehicle on Monday night, the guy who checked the vehicle claimed that the windscreen has been damaged during my renting. And it was so obvious that the way he checked that spot seemed so artificial, one the damage was in a place that even a normal check wouldn't have shown it as it was right beneath the wiper on the black band of the windscreen almost at the meeting point with the bonnet and two, his body language was so obvious that he was going to find something. Apparently, it turns out that he was the person to check this vehicle after it was returned from previous hire. So, the possibility that he could have missed this the last time and now to save himself from the trouble tries to put it on my head.

I'm now completely lost with amount that I have been asked to pay and also don't know how to dispute this claim as I genuinely feel both the damages aren't due to me. I have had a UK license for 10 years and strongly feel that the clutch was probably already worn out and I was really unlucky that it burnt out during my hire.

And the windscreen damage clearly appears like a preplanned event given the conversations I had during the vehicle replacement time.

Greenmotion have sent me the following mail about the clutch and have already charged me for the windscreen.

Would really appreciate people's suggestions and comments on this issue and on how I could go about this whole incident.

"Thank you for your emails. Firstly please accept my apologies for the delay in coming back to you. The reason for this was as diuscussed on the phone previously a few parts needed for the repairs were on back order. Now that the repairs have been completed we are able to submit our final outlay to you for the clutch that was burnt whilst in your possession.

Whilst I appreciate charging for items such as a clutch replacement is far from an ideal way to end of hire, we do on occasions need to do this. In order to avoid any non-expert opinion, I have asked a number of vehicle technicians for their view. You can obviously do the same. If a clutch was to fail due to general wear and tear, both sides of the clutch plate would wear away at the same or a similar rate. As you can see from the attachments this is not the case.

Once again, while I do appreciate that this is not an easy thing to accept, it is a reasonably simple thing for us to prove. In the opinion of the repair agents and other people that we have spoken to, the speed at which the failure occurred and the nature of the wear to the clutch parts suggests damage that occurred swiftly (i.e. not over thousands of miles) and as a result of the user at the time. Therefore based on this opinion, we are looking to you for the costs incurred for the damage to the clutch.

In order to make payment please go to https://www.glir.co.uk. The amount due is shown below. You also have the invoice fully declaring the main costs that we incurred. I hope this helps and I look forward to hearing from you shortly.
"

I have the photos of the clutch that green motion has sent me but I couldn't attach it here, but if anyone has such technical / mechanical expertise on this then please let me know I can email them to you for reference.

Really sad and totally lost...

Thanks all for your help
P
«13456715

Comments

  • arcon5
    arcon5 Posts: 14,099 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    edited 7 February 2018 at 6:56AM
    What was your excess?

    If have thought this would limit damages for the hire tbh.

    You got anything in writing about the condition of the second vehicle?
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    arcon5 wrote: »
    What was your excess?

    If have thought this would limit damages for the hire tbh.

    You got anything in writing about the condition of the second vehicle?


    I have a icarhire insurance policy but not sure what are the limitations in that. Forgive me for my lack of knowledge, is this excess determined by the rental company? the hire insurance doesn't seem to say any details about excess amount. It says it covers upto 6000 for one incident..

    "SECTION 4 – EXCESS INSURANCE
    What is insured What is not insured
    We will pay up to £6,000 for any single incident or £6,000 for a
    series of incidents during any single Vehicle Rental Agreement for
    the reimbursement of the Excess applied by the Rental Company
    caused by accidental damage to the Rental Vehicle including any
    caused by fire, theft or vandalism, as well as for any repair costs
    that the Rental Company charges You or for payments that You
    are responsible for under the terms of Your Vehicle Rental
    Agreement following accidental damage to windscreens, tyres,
    roof and under-carriage.
    We will pay up to £1,000 for any rental fees charged by the
    Rental Company for which You are liable during a period for
    which the Rental Vehicle is unable to be used by You and for any
    related towing costs including any additional costs incurred by
    You arising from the breakdown of the Rental Vehicle for You to
    travel home or to Your destination, as long as those fees or costs
    "

    All i was given was a form that has a sketch of the vehicle where they normally mark for any existing damages etc..

    Thanks
  • arcon5
    arcon5 Posts: 14,099 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    The excess will be on the rental agreement. The icarhire is an excess insurance. So in the case case of incident the hire company charge you costs up to the value of the excess and your excess insurer reimburse you
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Thanks arcon5 I will check the agreement, just to know what are the norms for an excess. How is it defined, by the size of the vehicle?

    In this case, they have simply raised an invoice showing the price and VAT for the clutch. And for the windscreen there wasn't any invoice either they have already charged my card for it!
  • facade
    facade Posts: 7,016 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    edited 7 February 2018 at 9:17AM
    palasmy wrote: »
    Hi

    If a clutch was to fail due to general wear and tear, both sides of the clutch plate would wear away at the same or a similar rate. As you can see from the attachments this is not the case.

    Which suggests that it is a fault within the clutch- a warranty issue, rather than wear & tear caused by you.

    Maybe it is worth seeking an independent expert's opinion
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science ;))
  • palasmy
    palasmy Posts: 179 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    facade wrote: »
    Which suggests that it is a fault within the clutch- a warranty issue, rather than wear & tear caused by you.

    Maybe it is worth seeking an independent expert's opinion

    Thanks facade.
    Which probably wuld help but then should i arrange for an expert from the vehicle company to go and inspect it in the place where it is now. They already claim to have done this but best to get it done for my own satisfaction. As u say the vehicle is 2017 registered so could be a manufacturing defect or at least cicered by warranty or something...
  • facade
    facade Posts: 7,016 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Actually, thinking about it, if they just give your expert the friction plate and the pressure plate (the car will be reassembled and earning by now), the friction plate is burnt on the pressure plate side, and the pressure plate is blue, with no broken springs, the opinion will likely be abuse. (I was thinking it could be stuck on the splines, but there won't be any splines to see.

    That would mean someone has been driving it like a hire car (the fastest cars in the World according to Clarkson), and it is your bad luck that it finally gave out in your care, when it could have been any of the previous hirers.

    Strikes me as wrong making you pay, rather like sending you out with 1.65 mm of tyre tread, and then billing you for new tyres because they are below 1.6mm when you return it.
    I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....

    (except air quality and Medical Science ;))
  • irc
    irc Posts: 23 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker
    First step check if your separate insurance covers this. If it does get this in writing before paying Green Motion anything. Then leave it to them. That is why you pay them

    If not, get an engineer to give an opinion. Assuming it supports the view that this is either wear and tear or misuse which could have happened any time before your hire then don't pay.

    Write them a letter saying you are not liable. Enclose a copy of your report. Thereafter ignore anything else short of a letter before claim taking you to court.

    I am not a lawyer but my understanding is that a claim of this size would go to the small claims court. In the small claims you are not liable for their legal costs. Worst case you would end up going to a hearing at your local court. Either a win and pay nothing or lose and pay the £2200 cost. (assuming the Hire Co produced evidence that this was the cost).
  • Retrogamer
    Retrogamer Posts: 4,215 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Photogenic Combo Breaker
    The clutch damage could have been done at any point in the car's history and it's just came to light when you've been driving it on hire.

    Ask them if they remove the gearbox and inspect the clutch after every time the car is hired
    The answer will obviously be no, so you can then ask how they determined that all that clutch wear was caused by you and not a previous driver.
    After all if a previous driver had caused some accelerated clutch wear then it's going to fail at some point even if driven normally.

    I wouldn't pay the clutch fee at all.
    All your base are belong to us.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,093 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    It'd be interesting to take the clutch issue to court. I'd love for a hire company to explain how they can say for certain that a specific driver caused it. Even the worst driver in the world would have to try really hard to kill a clutch in 32 miles.
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