Ground Source Heat Pumps

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  • lovesgshp
    lovesgshp Posts: 1,413 Forumite
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    paceinternet wrote: »
    I think it is unlikely nosha123 is able to heat 350m2 in the weather conditions we have had in the last 2 months with the heat pump alone.
    A rough optimistic guide at 50w/m2 would suggest 17.5 kw is needed.

    2.2kw input: what is the output at 0/35C ?

    If it was a 6kw input (2 x 3kw kettles) and 18kw output then that would be more realistic.
    The output on that particular unit is 10.7Kw @35C. At 50C this decreases to 10.1 Kw. The company that installed it, ( who have been going for a number of years ) would have calculated the thermal requirements for the house, based on insulation and thermal loss so therefore the pump should be sized correctly.
    A 16.7 Kw output pump requires 3.7Kw input @ 35C and 4.9Kw @ 50C.
    I deal with these units on a daily basis, so I hope you can understand I have a lot of knowledge about them.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
  • nosha123
    nosha123 Posts: 39 Forumite
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    well you chaps sound very knowledgeable (though I have NO bleedin' idea what you are talking about!!!) but I will endeavour to get those readings and advise as soon as I can!!!

    I'm guessing that its the GSHP thats the problem rather than the appliances in the house! As we just have the normal ovens x 2, hob x 1 fridges x 2 TV's etc...

    I'll be back as soon as I have some more detail!

    Thanks for helping me!
  • lovesgshp
    lovesgshp Posts: 1,413 Forumite
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    nosha123 wrote: »
    well you chaps sound very knowledgeable (though I have NO bleedin' idea what you are talking about!!!) but I will endeavour to get those readings and advise as soon as I can!!!

    I'm guessing that its the GSHP thats the problem rather than the appliances in the house! As we just have the normal ovens x 2, hob x 1 fridges x 2 TV's etc...

    I'll be back as soon as I have some more detail!

    Thanks for helping me!
    Don't worry Nosha, sure we will be able to work it all out in the end
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
  • paceinternet
    paceinternet Posts: 355 Forumite
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    calculated the thermal requirements for the house
    Unfortunately, most of the posts in the forum about heat pump problems are because that requirement is not done correctly for the outdoor temperatures we have been experiencing in the UK. Too many installers either do not understand the reduced outputs, or choose not to explain how the system will operate in these situations together with the running costs.
    I also have some experience with heat pumps, but they are being criticised too often because of the lack of professionalism by the installer/specifier.
  • nosha123
    nosha123 Posts: 39 Forumite
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    I was always under the impression our supplier was very knowledgable - and have recommended them to other friends who are very happy with their system. Neighbours of ours have their loop in the river - and although their house is half the size of ours - their bills are just £300 per YEAR!!!
  • paceinternet
    paceinternet Posts: 355 Forumite
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    Nosha123, you said "and a friend fitted same system but their bills are significantly less!".
    Is their property in the same location as yours, same 350m2, and some UFH been running "accidently on permanently", or same running hours, and same room temperature settings, and same electric tariff?

    It is much better to compare kwh usage with respect to running hours and room temps and m2. Then a better comparison can be made and you can ask the installer if that is what they would expect from their design.
  • lovesgshp
    lovesgshp Posts: 1,413 Forumite
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    nosha123 wrote: »
    I was always under the impression our supplier was very knowledgable - and have recommended them to other friends who are very happy with their system. Neighbours of ours have their loop in the river - and although their house is half the size of ours - their bills are just £300 per YEAR!!!
    Nosha
    Your supplier is one of the earliest companies in the UK for this technology, so I would concur that they know what they are talking about. I still think there is a solution, but as I say, the readings from your system will help very much to try and identify a problem.
    The E11+ has performance level to -35C to cope with Swedish winters, my initial thoughts are that a setting is wrong.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
  • JDoddY
    JDoddY Posts: 1 Newbie
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    Geotherm wrote: »
    My opinion is that it is the best form of heating, but then I am biased having spent the last 5 years with one. Underfloor heating is ideal for them, as you use low heat curves (usually max 35-38C).
    As regard to cost, I would suggest that you try to get a quote from one of the specialist UK suppliers, as we only deal with Italy, where costs are much higher than UK.
    If you let me know the approximate floor area of the house and insulation level, then I may be able to give you an idea of the pump size to look for.
    Remember you need a good size ground area if you go for the normal ground loops, otherwise there are compact collectors which only require about 40sq mtrs area. Boreholes are the most expensive.
    Try this company for a quote: iceenergy. I cannot post the link as a new user, but a google search will bring them up
    It's nice to hear that you are so happy with your GSHP - however did you source it from Ice Energy as you have recommended?
    I have installed the 11Kw model in my house and I am presently in conversation with thier tech support group to explain why my electricity bill has gone through the roof. Since I started logging its performance at the beggining of December my electricity consumption is over £1000!

    I need to engage with someone who not only knows how this technology works but can examine my house and tell my if my system IS as I am beginning to suspect, grossly under-sized.
    If you can help I will be grateful -or if not potentially broke by September:-)
  • lovesgshp
    lovesgshp Posts: 1,413 Forumite
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    paceinternet wrote: »
    Nosha123, you said "and a friend fitted same system but their bills are significantly less!".
    Is their property in the same location as yours, same 350m2, and some UFH been running "accidently on permanently", or same running hours, and same room temperature settings, and same electric tariff?

    It is much better to compare kwh usage with respect to running hours and room temps and m2. Then a better comparison can be made and you can ask the installer if that is what they would expect from their design.
    I think, that we should wait until we get the readings and then go from there. It is no good just questioning without the basic information.
    I do agree with your comment regarding installers who do not know what they are talking about, but this is the norm with companies that jump on the bandwagon. Ice energy are a long established UK company. IVT is also one of the largest European suppliers of heat pumps.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
  • lovesgshp
    lovesgshp Posts: 1,413 Forumite
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    JDoddY wrote: »
    It's nice to hear that you are so happy with your GSHP - however did you source it from Ice Energy as you have recommended?
    I have installed the 11Kw model in my house and I am presently in conversation with thier tech support group to explain why my electricity bill has gone through the roof. Since I started logging its performance at the beggining of December my electricity consumption is over £1000!

    I need to engage with someone who not only knows how this technology works but can examine my house and tell my if my system IS as I am beginning to suspect, grossly under-sized.
    If you can help I will be grateful -or if not potentially broke by September:-)
    I never recommended Ice Energy and they did not supply or fit my unit here in Italy 5 years ago, just mentioned it was a long standing supplier in the UK and I have no relation with it at all.
    If you can supply me with the details as I have asked Nosha, then I will try to help you out.
    Give me house size and type of heating
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
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