Smart Meters

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  • PLYSU
    PLYSU Posts: 176 Forumite
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    to save this going on on forever and ever. This is how it is.

    1. If you want one, get one.
    2. If you don't want one, decline any offer of one.

    THE END
  • System
    System Posts: 178,094 Community Admin
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    PLYSU wrote: »
    to save this going on on forever and ever. This is how it is.

    1. If you want one, get one.
    2. If you don't want one, decline any offer of one.

    THE END

    It will go on for some time yet I am afraid as this project is costing us £12Bn all of which is going on to our future bills. It is also the subject of an ongoing National Audit Office investigation that is due to report in the summer. The security concerns are very real as significant long term damage could be caused to the Grid if there was, say, a mass cyber hack in your Town. It doesn't follow that just because you say 'No to smart meters' that you will be protected from the consequences of the industry getting this one wrong. Cyber experts are of one voice when it comes to hacking - 'it is not a question of if, it is only a question of when'. A lot of the potential infrastructure risk could be eliminated if remote disconnection was disabled in all of the UK's smart meters.
  • EachPenny
    EachPenny Posts: 12,239 Forumite
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    PLYSU wrote: »
    to save this going on on forever and ever. This is how it is.

    1. If you want one, get one.
    2. If you don't want one, decline any offer of one.

    THE END

    And what about the people being told they 'must' have one or that all homes will be fitted with a smart meter by 2020? How about 'deemed appointments' where customers are being misled into thinking they have agreed to something they haven't - do you think it is ok for the elderly and vulnerable to be 'tricked' in this way? And what about the claims smart meters save customers money?

    Does the Government and energy companies deliberately misleading consumers not concern all of us, regardless of whether or not we personally want a 'smart' meter?
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    House_Martin wrote: »
    One wonders why the mainstream suppliers cannot enable smart Eco 7 when Secure Liberty meter suppliers users can do it ( Ovo ,Utilita etc ) and have been doing this for years.
    BG have proved they can do smart 2 rate weekend free tariff they have up and running for 2 years.
    Its completely baffling why they are hanging back
    . i have my own theories that they are afraid of the mayhem it will create from all the hundreds of thousands of Eco 7 meters who are receiving transposed billings from ancient old analogue timer switches and digital meters with clocks well out of time
    Hi

    If they've been installing E7 smart-meters for years then chances are that they are not compliant with SMETS2, possibly not even fully compliant with SMETS1 either ....

    Of course, the energy industry is looking to utilise the HHM (half hourly metering) capabilities of smart-meters to deliver TOU (time of use) tariffs which can be used as both carrot & stick to 'educate' consumers via their pockets (so we all know which makes them more money & the direction our bills will be going!).

    The issue here is that HHM is an inherent part of the SMETS2 standard in order to allow TOU billing, therefore special dual register E7 metering becomes redundant in theory because every compliant smart-meter has the multiple registers which are required, so why have 'special' E7 meters? ... Well, that's pretty straightforward - dedicated E7 circuits for DHW & storage heater circuits!

    Now, that raises an issue .... this is the SMETS2 standard <Link> - have a read & see that it includes dedicated circuit switching through the ESME ALCS functionality & IoT control switching ... it'll not be down to manufacturers to develop their own standards, therefore potentially making their unit non-compliant, so their complete solution will need to be fully ESME /SMETS2 compliant ... however, considering that there's only a couple of hundred fully compliant SMETS2 meters in the whole UK, it's not really something which is high on the priority list at the DCC or any of the suppliers at the moment, they just want to make their comms network & industry interfaces work! ...

    The correct technical solution involves added complexity when installing the smart-meter. Effectively the E7 circuit should be switched using the smart-metering defined IoT or ALCS as mentioned above, so obviously adding time, effort & cost to the implementation process ...

    Priority therefore will be to the 'simple' installations ... but this is a slap in the face to the entire reasoning for the Smart-metering project which is supposed to be addressing energy (electricity) awareness to customers with high electricity usage, which would obviously include those requiring electricity to provide heat ... and to do this as soon as possible! ...

    Ten years into the project, with less than 2 years to run and due to complete mismanagement we have spent £billions on millions of non-compliant meters which need rectification and only have a hand-full of compliant meters being tested in the field to ensure that the network provided by a centralised communication & interface company (which is late and massively over-budget) actually works, a box which is yet to be ticked! ... £12billion & 2020? ... not likely .... :eek: .... might as well call it what it is - a failure - and look to come clean on realistic costs & timescales, readdress the project delivery phase, or simply write it off as another complete failure due to lack of defined ownership & accountabilities ...

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • House_Martin
    House_Martin Posts: 1,462 Forumite
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    Hengus wrote: »
    And the experts remain concerned about smart meter security:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/18/smart-meters-could-leave-british-homes-vulnerable-cyber-attacks/
    No they don t ! Robert Cheesewright, of Smart Energy GB is an "expert " and is quoted in that link, "smart meters are one of the safest and most secure pieces of technology in your home ".Nick Hunn is not the only "expert " having his twopenworth
    There has nt been any instances of a cyber attack anywhere in the world on a smart meter network but its not stopping YOU getting your usual tinfoil hat on to spread project fear once again as per usual.
    Puerto Rico had a problem with a smart meter fiddle using an optical reader to lower readings which can occur on non smart meters also.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,094 Community Admin
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    House_Martin wrote: »
    No they don t ! Robert Cheesewright, of Smart Energy GB is an "expert " and is quoted in that link, "smart meters are one of the safest and most secure pieces of technology in your home ".Nick Hunn is not the only "expert " having his twopenworth
    There has nt been any instances of a cyber attack anywhere in the world on a smart meter network but its not stopping YOU getting your usual tinfoil hat on to spread project fear once again as per usual.
    Puerto Rico had a problem with a smart meter fiddle using an optical reader to lower readings which can occur on non smart meters also.

    I don't doubt that he is an expert in something but not in cyber security. He is currently the Director of Policy and Communications at Smart Energy GB. Previously, he was the Hd of Smart Metering Implementation Liaison. He has also worked in The Cabinet Secretariat and the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills. He has a a BA in Politics and Philosophy and a Masters Degree in Peace Studies. (Source: Linked In)
  • zeupater
    zeupater Posts: 5,355 Forumite
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    House_Martin wrote: »
    No they don t ! Robert Cheesewright, of Smart Energy GB is an "expert " and is quoted in that link, "smart meters are one of the safest and most secure pieces of technology in your home ".Nick Hunn is not the only "expert " having his twopenworth
    There has nt been any instances of a cyber attack anywhere in the world on a smart meter network but its not stopping YOU getting your usual tinfoil hat on to spread project fear once again as per usual.
    Puerto Rico had a problem with a smart meter fiddle using an optical reader to lower readings which can occur on non smart meters also.
    Hi

    How does an education path suited to journalists, politicians & spin doctors and a career to date linked to policy communication make anyone an 'expert' in technology or security issues? ...

    As for smart-meters being being classified as being amongst the most secure technology in a home - absolute rubbish ... by definition of 'technology' in our home, being an openly connected device it would rank somewhere in the bottom decile, probably not even performing very well within that either ...

    There are so many points of potential concern in the DCC offering that it's completely nonsensical to provide inherent functionality which could seriously impair the operation of what is critical national infrastructure ... and that's what's happened no matter what any 'expert' who works as a spin-doctor for the company which is tasked with rolling out the project may say .... just look at their record to date - they're free, they're no cost, it's on time, on budget, SMETS2 coverage & testing stats before any meters have been supplied (let-alone in volume!) ... any vested interests in playing politics here? - long grass? - big pay-cheques? .....

    The last thing that you'd expect a [STRIKE]spin doctor[/STRIKE] communications expert to say is .... 'yes, there's a slim chance that your security concerns are well founded" ... but unless they say that then they're simply wrong, so without coming clean on something so fundamental why trust anything else that they say!?

    HTH
    Z
    "We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
    B)
  • Montypython
    Montypython Posts: 11 Forumite
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    I am currently with Eon and have a Smart Meter which was installed when they first started using them a few years ago.

    When my current tariff ends I am going to move to another supplier.

    I know the Smart Meter will not function when I do that but what will still work?

    Will I be able to get the meter readings from the smart meter or will I have to take them manually from the electric and gas meters?

    Will Eon still be responsible for maintaining the house meters, ie I imagine the gas meter will run off a battery so will Eon be responsible for changing that, and would there be a charge for it?

    Thank you in advance.
    I always wanted to give stuff away.
    Jim
  • Michaelw
    Michaelw Posts: 296 Forumite
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    Its the new supplier that takes over the meter and is responsible for its maintenance,they may choose to install their own.Some suppliers have taken over the "Secure" brand smart meter.

    Given these are in effect prepayment meters that close supply in the event of a battery failure check the callout times before commiting,thats one of reasons I stayed on prepayment as it offers a four hour callout guarantee in if failure ocours.
  • Michaelw
    Michaelw Posts: 296 Forumite
    edited 20 February 2018 at 1:56PM
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    There's more concerns being raised as to these meters.

    We spy trouble: Even GCHQ is worried about smart meters say experts who fear a Trojan horse-style cyber attack

    Experts warn of dire consequences if hackers gain access to smart meters

    Fear that hackers could cut off energy supplies and break into other gadgets

    GCHQ, it is believed, has also raised concerns over the security of smart meters

    Security issues blamed for SMETS 2 smart meters being three years overdue

    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-5403473/Experts-say-GCHQ-concerned-smart-meters.html

    As The Mail on Sunday has highlighted, some users have experienced billing problems, meters suddenly not working.

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