Solicitor slow over probate
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ukmaggie45
Posts: 2,968 Forumite
I lost both my parents last year, 
Dad in July, and Mum in September.
My husband is joint executor with their solicitor.
There were no inheritance tax complications over Dad's will, as he left everything to Mum.
Since then the solicitor has had all papers he required, but only just got probate granted. We are angry at the long delay, :mad: as both parents had valid wills and their tax affairs were looked after by a tax accountant.
Inheritance tax became due on 1st april, which we assume has been paid as probate is now granted. But we'll have been paying the interest on the outstanding amount (somewhat over £100,000 I think) so I as residual beneficiary have lost that money. The interest I mean. Sorry, am confused trying to get the facts straight!:o
Meanwhile we have put my parents' flat on the market. We had hoped to use a different firm for the conveyancing as we have no confidence in the chap. But he told husband "as joint executor I insist on using my firm for the sale of your MIL's flat. Can he do that?
Also husband asked to go to see the papers (we believe the solicitor didn't get on with things in a timely manner) but he was told he WASN'T ALLOWED to see them until everything is finished. We feel that this isn't right - husband is supposed to be JOINT executor. Does anyone know if this is true?
Bit peeved (to put it mildly) that when husband offered to travel back from holiday for meeting to discuss the estate (presumably what to do with shares etc) he told husband not to, that they could meet when we got back (nearly 2 weeks ago now). But when husband rang to make appt earliest could get was Sep 4 as solicitor was going on hols. If he'd told us that earlier husband most certainly would have travelled home to see him then, as it's only about 100 miles travel, and we are desperate to get things sorted.
We never thought it would be nearly a year before the beneficiaries saw any money, and we wonder how much longer it will all take! Husband has also had to pay insurance fees on parents flat ever since Mum went into nursing home last May, and hasn't been re-imbursed yet - solicitor didn't include that in the inheritance tax form, so we are even paying IHT on money that should have been paid from Mum's estate to husband for that. About £60 a month, so a not inconsiderable amount.
We are not rich - I am disabled and on incapacity benefit. Husband is in low paid work, though does have a pension (took early retirement from an IT job). We are really struggling financially at the mo, we are in debt and looks as if will have to go futher into debt as this solicitor has been so slow.
Guess partly I just wanted to vent
, but would really like to know if solicitor is allowed to prevent his co-executor seeing the papers, and also if he's able to insist we use his firm for the conveyancing.
It's my 60th on Sunday, and I'd hoped to be able to treat the family, but that'll have to wait. Can't even grieve properly yet as all of this is doing me head in :mad:
Dad in July, and Mum in September.My husband is joint executor with their solicitor.
There were no inheritance tax complications over Dad's will, as he left everything to Mum.
Since then the solicitor has had all papers he required, but only just got probate granted. We are angry at the long delay, :mad: as both parents had valid wills and their tax affairs were looked after by a tax accountant.
Inheritance tax became due on 1st april, which we assume has been paid as probate is now granted. But we'll have been paying the interest on the outstanding amount (somewhat over £100,000 I think) so I as residual beneficiary have lost that money. The interest I mean. Sorry, am confused trying to get the facts straight!:o
Meanwhile we have put my parents' flat on the market. We had hoped to use a different firm for the conveyancing as we have no confidence in the chap. But he told husband "as joint executor I insist on using my firm for the sale of your MIL's flat. Can he do that?
Also husband asked to go to see the papers (we believe the solicitor didn't get on with things in a timely manner) but he was told he WASN'T ALLOWED to see them until everything is finished. We feel that this isn't right - husband is supposed to be JOINT executor. Does anyone know if this is true?
Bit peeved (to put it mildly) that when husband offered to travel back from holiday for meeting to discuss the estate (presumably what to do with shares etc) he told husband not to, that they could meet when we got back (nearly 2 weeks ago now). But when husband rang to make appt earliest could get was Sep 4 as solicitor was going on hols. If he'd told us that earlier husband most certainly would have travelled home to see him then, as it's only about 100 miles travel, and we are desperate to get things sorted.
We never thought it would be nearly a year before the beneficiaries saw any money, and we wonder how much longer it will all take! Husband has also had to pay insurance fees on parents flat ever since Mum went into nursing home last May, and hasn't been re-imbursed yet - solicitor didn't include that in the inheritance tax form, so we are even paying IHT on money that should have been paid from Mum's estate to husband for that. About £60 a month, so a not inconsiderable amount.
We are not rich - I am disabled and on incapacity benefit. Husband is in low paid work, though does have a pension (took early retirement from an IT job). We are really struggling financially at the mo, we are in debt and looks as if will have to go futher into debt as this solicitor has been so slow.
Guess partly I just wanted to vent
, but would really like to know if solicitor is allowed to prevent his co-executor seeing the papers, and also if he's able to insist we use his firm for the conveyancing.It's my 60th on Sunday, and I'd hoped to be able to treat the family, but that'll have to wait. Can't even grieve properly yet as all of this is doing me head in :mad:
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Comments
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Blimey, what a shambles.it certainly sounds very odd. If I was joint executor and landed with this I'd be phoning the Probate Office first thing in the morning to discuss my concerns and to get advice on whether the correct procedures were being followed..................
....I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)0 -
I did probate once - and I tell you, the next probate I'll be involved in will be MINE - my poor old nearest and dearest will have to cope. It's an absolute pain in the neck and any solicitor involved seems to work at the slowest possible pace. We lost our temper with our solicitor (or, rather, the solicitor my relation had involved whilst they were still alive). You think that keeping the same person would be an advantage and cut down on time and expense. HAH.
I would ask for a bill up to 'today's date' and ask for everything to be listed. The thing is, you can do probate yourself - it just takes time and sometimes I think it can't really take any longer than these so-called experts take.0 -
I am so sorry ukmaggie45. Every time I read these sorts of posts, I feel more and more angered. I seem to have been making a bit of a habit lately of posting my views on solicitors dealing with probate/writing Wills.
I am not sure on the terminology. What do you mean by joint solicitor? Do you mean your husband chose to use a solicitor to assist or the firm was named in the Will together with your husband?
I'm afraid solicitors do drag their heels and make mistakes; sometimes very costly ones.I found myself researching everything I was being told and it was not always correct. Some of the issues could have had costly implications further down the road.
My suggestion to you is to see the named solicitor for concerns/complaints. I have found this to be effective on several occasions for speeding things along/compensation..
It is such a shame that you are not doing the job yourself. As long as the estate is simple, the executor is organised, methodical and numerate, the job is easily do-able.Depending on how 'joint' the solicitor is, could you try to do the rest yourselves?
I can't believe that the solicitor can insist on the firm doing the conveyancing but I can't be definite. All I know is that there is plenty of evidence around ( including my own experience) of solicitors giving completely incorrect facts.
Not being allowed to see the papers is rubbish. That I am confident about.
You must ensure that the firm compensates for the interest incurred.
The bill will need to be scrutinised too.
I would also question what interest the firm is paying on funds that are being held. If not happy, insist on these being paid out.
Good luck.0 -
sloughflint wrote: »I am so sorry ukmaggie45. Every time I read these sorts of posts, I feel more and more angered. I seem to have been making a bit of a habit lately of posting my views on solicitors dealing with probate/writing Wills.
Please point me to these!sloughflint wrote: »I am not sure on the terminology. What do you mean by joint solicitor? Do you mean your husband chose to use a solicitor to assist or the firm was named in the Will together with your husband?
Both my parents appointed my husband as joint executor with their solicitor. So we are stuck with him. Especially since probate now granted, and husband has signed the forms for him to put all monies into the firm's account. I think the inheritance tax got paid from monies in my father's account now held by solicitor since it was left to my mother, we are both naive about all this stuff so I'm not sure I understand it all fully.sloughflint wrote: »I'm afraid solicitors do drag their heels and make mistakes; sometimes very costly ones.I found myself researching everything I was being told and it was not always correct. Some of the issues could have had costly implications further down the road.
I worry we're running into that already. I just wish we had a solicitor we trusted. Initially we did, he said "just give me all the papers and I will sort it out", but he hasn't done it in a timely manner, and we have no idea at all what charges he will make. Since all monies are going into the firm's account he can just take what he wants so far as I can see.
sloughflint wrote: »My suggestion to you is to see the named solicitor for concerns/complaints. I have found this to be effective on several occasions for speeding things along/compensation..
Husband is drafting complaint letter to firm. I looked into complaints, and spoke to someone at the Legal Complaints Service:
http://www.legalcomplaints.org.uk/home.page
Very helpful, I can complain myself, but they can only bring in their full powers for the solicitor's client - husband is their client as he is joint executor. I can complain but all they can do is try make the so and so speed up. Wish I'd done that 6 months ago now, but husband was against it back then. (he likes a quiet life! :rolleyes: )sloughflint wrote: »It is such a shame that you are not doing the job yourself. As long as the estate is simple, the executor is organised, methodical and numerate, the job is easily do-able.Depending on how 'joint' the solicitor is, could you try to do the rest yourselves?
We didn't have the choice as solicitor named in will, I am disabled so was completely flattened after organising (and speaking at) both funerals. I am still not over it, not helped at all by all this hassle. :mad:sloughflint wrote: »I can't believe that the solicitor can insist on the firm doing the conveyancing but I can't be definite. All I know is that there is plenty of evidence around ( including my own experience) of solicitors giving completely incorrect facts.
We are still trying to find out about this - husband to make more phone calls tomorrow if he can find time. He's still working full time, so it's hard for him. I have difficulties using the phone, so mostly have to rely on him to make phone calls, especially complicated ones.sloughflint wrote: »Not being allowed to see the papers is rubbish. That I am confident about.
That's what we thought, but we need to be absolutely certain before we add that to our complaint.sloughflint wrote: »You must ensure that the firm compensates for the interest incurred.
We will certainly try!sloughflint wrote: »The bill will need to be scrutinised too.
Yeah, we kind of reckonned that! :eek: We've been warned that we may be billed for when we rang up asking for information :eek: - nobody told us anything unless we phoned though, which I think is also worthy of complaint.sloughflint wrote: »I would also question what interest the firm is paying on funds that are being held. If not happy, insist on these being paid out.
We have this in mind... It's just so awful having to go through all of this. I'm sure my parents trusted this ^(^&*(%( to look after us and make sure things were as easy as possible for us. And as fast as possible too. They must be turning in their urns.sloughflint wrote: »Good luck.
Thanks! :cheesy: And thank you for your reply.
I'll try and update when we find out what happens with all of this. If I live that long! 0 -
Blimey, what a shambles.it certainly sounds very odd. If I was joint executor and landed with this I'd be phoning the Probate Office first thing in the morning to discuss my concerns and to get advice on whether the correct procedures were being followed.
Thanks for this suggestion. Husband will try to get onto it tomorrow if he has time.
He's still working full time, so it can be hard to find time to make a lot of calls, and he seems to be needing to make an awful lot of calls over all of this! _pale_
Will update when/if we manage to find out any more.0 -
Quote:
Originally Posted by sloughflint
Not being allowed to see the papers is rubbish. That I am confident about.
That's what we thought, but we need to be absolutely certain before we add that to our complaint.
Plese, please speak to the Probate Office about this, they will give you complete and accurate information about what the solicitor can do as the joint executor and what he can't. And I'm pretty sure he can't withold information.
The whole point of Joint Executors is that they execute the estate jointly by making joint decisions and I honestly can't see how this can happen in your case unless both executors have sight of all the documents generated.
A joint executor can only act on their own if the other(s) give permission and this is done by way of them all completing some forms which (I think) have to be lodged with the Probate Office......................I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)0 -
Plese, please speak to the Probate Office about this, they will give you complete and accurate information about what the solicitor can do as the joint executor and what he can't. And I'm pretty sure he can't withold information.
(snip).
Many thanks :T, just intercommed husband (he's watching the Liverpool match and I'm in bed upstairs), and he is going to do his very best to contact the Probate Office tomorrow.0 -
Oh dear, what a mess!
[strike]I will locate threads in a minute.[/strike]( not relevant ) Not sure they will be any use to you with your practical problem.
I was fearing you would say that the solicitor was named in the Will. Like Errata, I feel that they can insist on continuing with the job.However you have more than enough ammunition to make life a little more difficult. I would start with the in house complaint and then there is always the law society to fall back on.
I still think you should be able to get the money released. Bear in mind though that I had lost all patience and whilst the solicitor transferred the money without fuss, I wonder if it was because I had started to be a little awkward.
Could you try querying with the Law Society as well as Errata's suggestion re the conveyancing issue?
You don't seem too confident about the insurance fees/interest. Their mistake/delay. They sort it out for you! It is the executors duty to ensure the IHT form is correct and debts are known.
The bill is a very important aspect. But that will come later to deal with.
It is awful. People are so trusting of the profession; myself included until 11 years ago. I despair when I keep reading here the automatic suggestion for people to consult a solicitor for either a Will or to administer an Estate.
Finally, you should have been given clear guidelines on costs of the firm. Edit: maybe not mandatory if named executor in the Will.
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(snip)
We lost our temper with our solicitor (or, rather, the solicitor my relation had involved whilst they were still alive). You think that keeping the same person would be an advantage and cut down on time and expense. HAH.
Thanks for your reply.:D
Guess our problem was solicitor named as joint executor in each of my parents' wills. So not really much choice, especially given they died so close together following dementia so we were both totally totally exhausted from the previous 2-3 years of problems and difficulties.:eek:I would ask for a bill up to 'today's date' and ask for everything to be listed. The thing is, you can do probate yourself - it just takes time and sometimes I think it can't really take any longer than these so-called experts take.
We've spoken to several friends and neighbours who have done it themselves... They got probate in 5 WEEKS! So bit peeved it's taken nearly a YEAR to not get the legacies paid out.
I know there were some difficulties with Dad's estate (but it was completed in about 6 months from his death even so), but so far as I am aware Mum's was completely straightforward.
The probate forms are available online, and it seems to me that as this kind of thing goes they are relatively easy if you have the information... Bear in mind that I have spent 16 years filling in Incapacity Benefit forms and DLA application and renewal forms (had help with the initial DLA form but done own ever since) which truly are the forms from hell - the probate one looked fairly straightforward in comparison.
Thanks again for your reply:beer:0 -
Sloughflint, Thanks so much for your further response. Will reply when able. Am exhausted now - had counselling session earlier which is always knackering. It is helping - my mother's death was fairly traumatic, it will be a long business I think.0
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