What is a bedroom ? and is it a tax ?

Brassedoff · 1 April 2013 at 2:37PM

hullvon wrote: »

Hi my husband and myself had to move from a 2 bed private house to a 3 bed housing trust [ex military] house to accomodate my husbands wheelchair as he had a amputation [and he had no access with a wheelchair as the doors was not wide enough].although this house is a 3 bed one of the bedrooms has a through the ceiling lift [we had put in] so are we in a 3 bedroom house or a 2bedroom house and do i contact the housing trust or the local council for answers any help would be appreciated

My Nephew who is 13 years old and is in the later stages of MD has a in ceiling lift. My brothers house has been classified by the planning department (two years ago) as from three bed to two. He actually did this to help with gaining permission for a major extension.

I used to own a company that did an awful lot of building. Talking to building control and getting them to come out, see the adjustment/change of use, allowed us to get our way with respect the extensions etc.

And before anyone pipes in with some copy &'paste, "building control" within the planning dept can change the house classification, which can then affect all things from council tax banding through to taking a three bed back to two, then complete the building work taking it back to three.

It may, or should e a far better way than going via some of the methods in new depts who are going to naturally resist changing bedrooms to other uses.

As Richie has pointed out, you also have the minimum size allowable to class a room as a bedroom.

lukieboy96 · 1 April 2013 at 2:59PM

rogerblack wrote: »

They could in principle say you've got 5 bedrooms.
Are these reception rooms normally used for other things?

Wouldn't it depend on what your tenancy agreement said?

Brassedoff · 1 April 2013 at 3:10PM

lukieboy96 wrote: »

Wouldn't it depend on what your tenancy agreement said?

All properties are classed at planning (or for 1950's backward with planning) as so many bedrooms. That's how you end up with your council tax band rating that claimants don't have to worry about. Whoops, will have a tiny percentage to worry about soon. :mad:

hullvon · 1 April 2013 at 3:28PM

we pay %20 towards our rent and have had a bill for council tax at almost £90 per year we are at the moment in receipt of dha until april and the lady from the council told us to apply again. the local council and social services put the lift in and a wet room as my husbands condition will only get worse[the dhp is £10 per week] we didnt have to pay anythink in our old house as the rent was low as we was good tenants who improved the property while we was there for 7 years. i think maybe i need to contact the council and housing trust on wednesday many thanks for all your quick replies

Richie-from-the-Boro · 1 April 2013 at 3:47PM

Brassedoff wrote: »

Richie,

Plzzzzzze don't believe I am as thick as your reply to me suggests. I also do not take any red tops! Far from it and NOT the Daily [STRIKE]nazi[/STRIKE] Mail.

There is still a compelling case of people "bedroom blocking" and should be encouraged to move. Think of the poor child in a bedsit sharing with parents? How to help them?

Good to see you are alive and kicking my friend.

- indeed I am my mate, 'alive an kicking'
- nice to see you posting, you should do more
- that way we both stay 'alive an kicking' .. .. longer

I know you are a long way from thick, indeed the reverse applies, what happened to you happened, but your cerebral stuff is intact. I assumed like all here you were just having a bad day, we all have them whether pain or drug induced, from time to time we all 'have a bad day' !

My issue with the bedroom tax is it is a tax, a true to Maggie style backdoor tax that will largely punish the poorest in society. Its not a redistribution of asset in business terms, because there is and can never be a 'redistribution, its a (1) tax bullet with only the poor in its crosshairs and the only redistribution is the % of increased, almost double housing benefit moved from local authority and housing associations to the GOV's private sector friends. The poorest on these islands are already measurably [The Poverty and Exclusion Project] worse off today than they were at the height of the cuts imposed by Maggie in the '83 GOV.

- words like wool & eyes come to mind
- if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth, the polls prove it
- the GOV's saving grace is there are no other properties to move to
- 'saving grace' because if there were properties to move to it would cost GOV considerably more

The bedroom tax is minuscule and the mere tip of the iceberg compared to the 6 different welfare cuts coming in over the next 5 years. Demos themselves say that as the eligibility thresholds for care tightens something approaching 26k individuals will simply no longer be recognised by the system [there are 2 computer systems running concurrently] as disabled. It really hits the fan after UC is implemented, this bedroom tax is merely an enabler for the implementation of UC.

Brassedoff · 1 April 2013 at 4:09PM

I will not disagree with you on some points. One major problem that the right to buy has brought about is the lack of council housing. They should never have sold stock off without replacing it on a one for one basis. The housing stock should still only be in council control. Finally, as mush should be done to stop these leaches who own several houses and rent them out on 6 month contracts giving no one security.

My contracts are set by my local authority so I know I charge fairly. I have an open end terms so someone can live there for as long as they like. Total security in being able to lay real roots. Unlike so many landlords.

Richie-from-the-Boro · 1 April 2013 at 5:14PM

Brassedoff wrote: »

I will not disagree with you on some points. One major problem that the right to buy has brought about is the lack of council housing. They should never have sold stock off without replacing it on a one for one basis. The housing stock should still only be in council control. Finally, as mush should be done to stop these leaches who own several houses and rent them out on 6 month contracts giving no one security.

My contracts are set by my local authority so I know I charge fairly. I have an open end terms so someone can live there for as long as they like. Total security in being able to lay real roots. Unlike so many landlords.

- head nail - nail head
- no GOV including the Labour terms since the 1080 RTB has built [relatively] any homes
- agreed the money from the RTB sales went straight into Maggies handbag instead of replacement dwellings
- but it was never intended as RTB as such is was to redistribute conservative voting wards Shirley Porter style
- the 32% / 44% market value at the time was as we now know [found guilty in court] political gerrymandering

Current Department for Communities and Local Government - 2011 Statistics show :

- 38% of social tenants are well-off enough not to need Housing Benefit
- over 800,000 tenants are in full-time work
- 60% of social housing tenants who are couples with children do not claim Housing Benefit

So many social tenants will be able to meet the cost of the mortgage after allowing for the RTB discount.

Back to the bedroom tax. If all successive governments have year on year put insufficient investment in building new homes, social or otherwise, the population whether housing benefit funded or work salary funded are unable to buy or rent the homes they need because there are no affordable homes. The solution to the crisis is not to punish and fine those who can't move but to build more affordable homes, affordable homes particularly in the social rented sector.

NOTE : Good to know that yours are Assured tenancies !

nannytone_2 · 1 April 2013 at 5:50PM

the 'town' i live in has a population of approx 10,000.
before the downturn, we were promised regeneration ( the town has never recovered from the pit closing)
we had an influx of builders, wanting to cash in on that regeneration.
the council granted permission to build in exchange for a percentage of houses built. we also had 2 housing associations granted permission to build.
almost 500 new properties were built in just under 8 years.
but ...
the regeneration never happened!
now there is a glut of homes to rent ( lots bought by private landlords .. mainly the owner of sports direct that has his head quaters nearby .... employing mainly foreign workers at NMW who he rents his properties to)

so now we have a surplus of homes and little work. the rents on these private lets is at the LHA rate, so people can pick and choose where they want to live. in an older type council property and a brand new (ish) home.
all sounds relativerly good doesnt it?

but there are NO 1 ned properties at all.
the council granted permission for 2 and 3 bed properties as they were the mostuseful.

you can put a single person in a 2 bed, but cant put a family in a 1 bed.
these 2 and 3 beds gave them the most options.

now we have established that there is no lack of affordable housing here ... either in the social or private sectors.
but the issue is that many many people are facing a reduction in benefit because they have a 'spare' room. one that they dont want, but there is no alternative.
even the pensioners sheltered housing ( which we have a lot of) is all 2 bed.

i dont know where we are expected to go to and whi they think will move into the properties we leave if we could find an alternative

my property was refused by 2 families because there was no garden and they knew there would be no difficulty in getting another property.

just having a rant .... sorry

jackyann · 1 April 2013 at 6:49PM

I have some friends who bought a house some years ago that was described as a "7 roomed house" - it was an extended bungalow. They organised to use it as 2 reception + 5 bedrooms. When they went to sell it, the purchaser's solicitor was more eagle-eyed than my friends' was.

When they looked back at the planning permission for the extension, it was clear that permission had been granted for "2 playrooms that are not to be used as bedrooms".

Heaven knows what will happen if anyone in that house applies for housing benefit. And to clarify: housing benefit is paid to people who qualify for it, regardless of who their landlord is.

Brassedoff · 1 April 2013 at 7:17PM

As I said Jackyann, its in what was under the planning acceptance, not some other dept. planners are a law to themselves.

What is a bedroom ? and is it a tax ?

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