Transfer of ownership

Snowy_da_cat · 27 May 2018 at 12:29PM

Ok, let me make this clear once and for all! I don't need advice on the pitfalls of her doing this, I am aware of them. Hence the fact I am against it. I don't need vitriolic responses on tax payers, I AM one, I agree with you! Hence the fact I am against it! I do not need to be told that you would not do that, neither would I. Have I mentioned I am against it?
Wind your necks in, get off your soap boxes and READ what I am saying!

maisie_cat · 27 May 2018 at 12:43PM

The only thing I would say is that very few people actually need care, and if you refuse then your brother will get your mother's house.
The worst that can happen is that the house does have to be sold to pay for care, and that is no worse than if she hadn't transferred it and needed care. If that does happen you and your brother will have no choice anyway.
I have a neighbour whose mother transferred her £2m property to a family trust, she now gets daily carers paid for by Westminster council as she has no assets! and she still lives in the property. She already had dementia symptoms when the trust was created and the plan worked. It does make me angry but there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done

Savvy_Sue · 27 May 2018 at 3:38PM

To answer one of the OP's specific questions, I do not believe that the house can be transferred into her and her brother's ownership without signatures from all concerned. The actual forms for transfer will be on the Landregistry website and it should be clear from that.

There is therefore a risk that Mother, in her obstinate refusal to hear what she's being told, will decide to transfer it only to brother.

We can hope that the solicitor will advise her against this scheme, as the pitfalls are well known.

Mojisola · 27 May 2018 at 3:47PM

Snowy_da_cat wrote: »

My problem is that I do not want her to do it! If she needs to sell the property to pay care home fees, should she ever need it, then she should do that. My brother however, agrees with her!

Point out to them both that the scheme won't work and could end up with extra costs.

She will be assessed as still having the capital value of the house so the council won't pay for residential care.

If your brother refuses to sell the house to pay for a care home, is he going to move in and be her 24/7 carer? Otherwise, what's going to happen to her?

When he does come to sell, he may well be hit with Capital Gains Tax and the estate may also have to pay Inheritance Tax.

margaretclare · 27 May 2018 at 4:09PM

Snowy_da_cat wrote: »

It appears obvious that I will not gain a civil answer to my original question of whether I am able to stop her doing what I believe to be the wrong thing. I will therefore opt out with the only words I ever get when trying to discuss anything financial with my mother...
'It's my money and I will do what I want with it'.

Well, that may well be the case, but it's not 'money' as such, is it? It's house property and she will still need somewhere to live even if what she wants to do is possible. Has she thought of that?

You've made your position clear, but I don't think she can give you this if you don't want it. Your brother may have pound signs in his eyes and thinks he can turn this asset into cash.

There have been instances where this has happened, and the parent was evicted by the person she gave her house to. She assumed she could go on living there, but that wasn't the case.

Keep_pedalling · 27 May 2018 at 6:14PM

maisie_cat wrote: »

The only thing I would say is that very few people actually need care, and if you refuse then your brother will get your mother's house.
The worst that can happen is that the house does have to be sold to pay for care, and that is no worse than if she hadn't transferred it and needed care. If that does happen you and your brother will have no choice anyway.
I have a neighbour whose mother transferred her £2m property to a family trust, she now gets daily carers paid for by Westminster council as she has no assets! and she still lives in the property. She already had dementia symptoms when the trust was created and the plan worked. It does make me angry but there doesn't seem to be anything that can be done

The plan probable wont work if she needs residential care, even if the trust had not been setup she would still get her care paid for as she would be living in her only asset.

Keep_pedalling · 27 May 2018 at 6:28PM

This could have a significant tax implication to you (and possibly your brother) if you have plans to buy your own place in the near future. It will remove your ability to take advantage of the bonus available in LISAs to 1st time buyers, and your purchase will be hit with an additional 3% stamp duty.

Your mother could also find herself homeless if either of you were made bancrupt, got divorced, or pre deceased her.

I think all you can do for the moment is to see what the solicitor advises.

SDLT_Geek · 27 May 2018 at 8:43PM

This is not quite my field (I am an SDLT Geek after all) but this issue did come up in an SDLT case not long ago. Here is a summary of what I found:

No person is obliged to accept a transfer made to him / her without his / her consent

. If therefore any such transfer is made, he / she may disclaim the benefit of the deed; and the disclaimer need not be made by deed, but may be made orally. Upon disclaimer the deed thereby will become void and the property will revest in the party who made the transfer. A disclaimer of an attempt to make a life time gift cannot be withdrawn subsequently

.

I hope this helps. I do not know what happens if a gift is made to two people jointly and one of them only disclaims. Probably a tricky one!

SevenOfNine · 28 May 2018 at 9:21AM

Snowy_da_cat You've been given some very good advice & links to deprivation of assets info.

Sadly, there will always be those with nothing better to do than deliver the moral lectures regarding "why should I as a taxpayer fund someone else's care fees".

Disregard all of those, for it ISN'T what you're suggesting, it is your mother who is, & she's not listening to you trying to persuade her not to take this course of action.

Hopefully her solicitor will advise her against signing over her property, there are very negative deprivation & tax implications your BROTHER needs to take on board so that you & he may be more successful at dissuading her from taking this further together.

Mojisola · 28 May 2018 at 9:29AM

Before she makes up her mind to go ahead with this scheme, find out the level of funding that her council provides and visit a few homes who charge that amount.

Compare those with a couple of more expensive ones.

Which would she like to spend her last years in?

Transfer of ownership

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