Can a shopkeeper refuse to give change?

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  • NeilCr
    NeilCr Posts: 4,430 Forumite
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    edited 20 April 2018 at 12:26AM
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    unholyangel wrote: »

    As for the vending question...I've never had any problems with vending machines or parking machines not giving change. Theres usually an attendant of sorts who has access to the machine or who can do it manually.

    ?

    Think you are quite lucky with parking machines

    http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/councils-raking-in-your-cash-180184/

    My council isn't listed there but they are the same. And not an attendant in site. Likewise the Morrison's car park I use when I volunteer.

    A quick google search (can't sleep) shows many other councils in different parts of the country are the same.
  • Deastons
    Deastons Posts: 464 Forumite
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    Rainbowgirl84 wrote: »
    Is it legal for a 'seller' to say exact money only...no change given?

    I know cab drivers can legally short change you if they don't have enough change (as in you would have to overpay rather than them settle for an underpayment).
  • Deastons
    Deastons Posts: 464 Forumite
    edited 20 April 2018 at 10:29AM
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    NBLondon wrote: »
    What about the case of shopkeeper does not have enough actual change in the till when customer offers a £50 note for a packet of Polos? They are entitled to ask for alternative payment "haven't you got anything smaller?" or decline your custom at that point.

    In the case of parking, when I came to pay, I'd already used the service. I had to pay for my parking to exit the car park.

    But I think the terms of the payment were unfair:
    I could pay by cash, but as I didn't have the exact amount I would have to overpay. Or I could pay on card, but there was a minimum £3.50 card payment. So either way, I was required to pay more for my parking that was stated on the tariff board (where it made no mention of needing exact change nor the £3.50 minimum card payment).

    And I still maintain that the machine can give change, but the decision has been made to disable that facility as there is additional money to be made by doing so.
    lammy82 wrote: »

    The reason the machines don't give change is usually because that makes the machines more expensive to buy and maintain, and requires them to be continually topped up with change.

    Surely if the machine is giving change back to customers, it would need less maintenance, as it would fill with cash more slowly. And if needing to pay someone to maintain it really is an issue, why not reduce the minimum card payment to that of the lowest tarriff?
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346 Forumite
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    waamo wrote: »
    There is no law that says shops have to give change. Such a sign would therefore be legal. If you don't like the terms of the contract then don't enter into a contract.

    Are you sure about that? If I paid for a £1 ice cream with a £10 note the shop can legally keep the £9 change?
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346 Forumite
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    zagfles wrote: »
    What says the shopkeeper must provide exact change, rather than the customer must provide exact money? No-one's changing the price. If the shopkeeper can refuse to accept a £50, why can't he refuse to accepts a £10?So he could make a business decision to accept brass buttons, but not a business decision to accept, say, only coins for a £2.99 transaction? Is that what you're saying?

    There's a huge difference between not accepting a £10 note and accepting a £10 and not giving the change back!

    Scenario 1: You go in to a shop, buy something for £1, you only have a £10 note, they don't have change, you leave your item behind.

    Scenario 2: You go in to a shop, buy something for £1, you only have a £10 note, they take your £10 note, close the till and tell you you can't have your £9 change.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
  • waamo
    waamo Posts: 10,298 Forumite
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    peachyprice wrote: »
    Are you sure about that? If I paid for a £1 ice cream with a £10 note the shop can legally keep the £9 change?

    If it is made clear enough that the terms of sale mean no change is given and you agree to that then yes they could.

    A sale is ultimately a contract. If both parties agree to a contract why shouldn't it be allowed?
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346 Forumite
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    zagfles wrote: »
    But vending machines, parking machines, parking meters, payphones etc are exempt? As they often allow overpayment without giving change. Is there a different law when using a payment machine?I wasn't expecting him to take the £10 without the customer knowing, or being told, he can't/won't give change. I was thinking about a scenario where he doesn't have change, or he wants exact money only. But payment machines can, apparently?

    I think that is the whole point of OP starting this thread ;)
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346 Forumite
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    waamo wrote: »
    If it is made clear enough that the terms of sale mean no change is given and you agree to that then yes they could.

    A sale is ultimately a contract. If both parties agree to a contract why shouldn't it be allowed?

    Then they shopkeeper would not be selling £1 ice creams, he would be using dynamic pricing based whether you pay cash or card. Is that legal?

    Not all contract terms are legal just because both parties agree. A retailer cannot withdraw your consumer rights but because you agree they can.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
  • waamo
    waamo Posts: 10,298 Forumite
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    peachyprice wrote: »
    Then they shopkeeper would not be selling £1 ice creams, he would be using dynamic pricing based whether you pay cash or card. Is that legal?

    Not all contract terms are legal just because both parties agree. A retailer cannot withdraw your consumer rights but because you agree they can.

    I don't see that he is using dynamic pricing. He is selling you a £1 ice cream. He simply isn't giving change. If you had a £1 coin then you can buy it just the same.

    Or you could go and get your £10 changed and buy it. It's a fixed price.
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346 Forumite
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    waamo wrote: »
    I don't see that he is using dynamic pricing. He is selling you a £1 ice cream. He simply isn't giving change. If you had a £1 coin then you can buy it just the same.

    Or you could go and get your £10 changed and buy it. It's a fixed price.

    It's not a fixed price if he accepts a £10 note for it but refuses to give the £9 change after you have handed your money over. The £1 ice cream becomes a £10 ice cream, whereas if you pay with card it will always be a £1 ice cream.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
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