Dodgy wine investment???

Mrs_Frog · 6 July 2018 at 6:19PM

Im thinking more and more that its not as legit as Id like it to be!

The company is Intercontinental Wines, Southampton. The poor girl at their answering service got another 2 calls from me today! Dad told my husband that hed been trying to sell it but they were not helpful on that as they wanted him to keep his holding. Which to me is a red flag!

If the money is gone, its gone, but Im going to put up a fight for it! Its Dads money and he thought he would be helping my sister and I out by an investment and Im angry at the thought that people would potentially take advantage. Also to not respond to family and a solicitor is rude and arrogant in my mind!

IT isnt an issue, his estate is in the threshold.

Please forgive the grammar, apostrophe not registering from iOS

TallGirl · 6 July 2018 at 11:03PM

My ex got scammed by a wine scam too, speak to Consumer Direct or whatever Citizens Advice call it now they will make a referral to standing standards and you might get some help there. If he was vulnerable when he took out the investment they will be very interested they were with me.

Luckily I spotted it in time and we only lost £100 deposit got the rest back thank god.

Armorica · 6 July 2018 at 11:48PM

It's inevitably a scam. Cynically, it's gone to finance his swanky new build apartment.

However, the company was active enough this week to submit a filing to companies house. I've found significantly more information online than I'm comfortable posting - you're welcome to PM me.

Ideally, you need to find some correspondence/paperwork. The contract would help.

Going the professional routes look at:
https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/news/wine-investment-fraud-dont-let-your-investment-go-sour-apr16
https://www.selachii.co.uk/advice-for-victims-of-wine-investment-scams.html
https://elitefinewines.com/2017/07/19/fine-wine-investment-scams-avoid/

Or, the Daily Mail loves stories like this...

Reed_Richards · 7 July 2018 at 7:02AM

Mrs_Frog wrote: »

...If the money is gone, its gone, but Im going to put up a fight for it! Its Dads money and he thought he would be helping my sister and I out by an investment and Im angry at the thought that people would potentially take advantage....

You are quite right to be angry and I applaud your intention to fight for the money. But please don't let this delay the probate application. I really think it shouldn't, particularly if the estate is below the IHT threshold whether or not you can recover the £20,000. Update your solicitor about your lack of progress; I feel sure she will agree to proceed with the probate.

Malthusian · 9 July 2018 at 9:20AM

Mrs_Frog wrote: »

If the money is gone, its gone, but Im going to put up a fight for it!

Fight for it by all means, but I doubt your Dad would have wanted you to throw good money after bad. The money is almost certainly gone.

That is an assumption, but unregulated ultra-high-risk investment + vulnerable client + lack of contact or valuation statements from unregulated investment scheme = safe assumption.

As IHT is not an issue your solicitor should be gently encouraging you to write it off instead of racking up more costs.

Also to not respond to family and a solicitor is rude and arrogant in my mind!

Scammers are only polite when you're offering them money.

Have you checked whether chargeback or a section 75 claim is possible?

Mrs_Frog · 16 July 2018 at 3:16PM

To those that provided advice on this, thank you so very much, both on the open forum and within the DMs.

Long story short, my sister and I have decided to ask the solicitor to write off this investment with a value of zero for probate, so that process can continue unabated. Of course I understand that there will be proviso that if anything can be recovered then it will be referred back to the solicitor and dealt with accordingly, as in divided between the two of us equally. However, we are of the opinion that the money is gone, there has been no contact from this damn organisation at all. I have asked the solicitor if there is a chance that the payments were made via credit card, which means we may get something, but if I am honest, I am not sure how Dad paid for it, and all the paperwork is with the solicitor.

What we have decided to do is to report them to the police, and/or Action Fraud, as it is looking highly likely that this was an unsolicited approach from them, with a high pressure sales tactic. We may not get anything back, but we may be able to warn people about this company in particular.

Thanks again MSEers!

Terry_Towelling · 16 July 2018 at 5:02PM

If they did take direct payment by credit card (not via paypal or the like) then there will be plenty of others out there with potentially the same issue. If you can find this out you have at least a sniff of a chance of recovery via S75 of the CCA. That said, there would have to be a breach of contract/misrepresentation involved somewhere and I really don't know what the legal position is when one party to the contract has died.

If you do uncover something then don't let the credit card company fob you off by saying it's too old to assist you. It may be too late for them to 'charge back' but as long as it is less than 6 years old (I believe) a S75 claim can still be made. It's just the fact that your father is deceased that may hold things back and you still need to be able to demonstrate a breach of contract/misrepresentation by the seller.

Best of Luck.

Mrs_Frog · 16 July 2018 at 6:39PM

Quick update - so in a fit of indignation, I put up a couple of anonymous reviews of the company and filled in the online form for CAB/consumer stuff/trading standards....they are the only actual reviews up...!!!8230;

Less than 2 hours later I get a phone call, from a 'no caller id' and it was them....I need to let them have a scan of Dad's death certificate and then they will sort out the valuation......so they say.....

Apparently they had been on away and my messages have only just got through on email.

Some may say coincidence. Some may not.

Reed_Richards · 17 July 2018 at 7:08AM

Normally whoever is taking care of the probate will supply (certified) copies of the Death Certificate to get a valuation and then, when probate is granted, a copy of the Letters of Administration to prove that they have the right to distribute the investment according to the will. Even if you are, finally, provided with a nominal valuation, that's not to say you will get any of that money back. But best of luck.

Mrs_Frog · 17 July 2018 at 8:35AM

Reed,

I have copies of Dad's death certificate, so I will let them have a scan of that as soon as I get a suitable contact email, and I will take advice from the solicitor. We have instructed her, only yesterday mind, to take this investment out of the equation, but I will be contacting her again very shortly with this update, and to take her advice on it.

The phone call I received definitely came from a car, as he was on his way to another 'meeting', which in my mind smacks of 'not really that fussed' and he seemed surprised when I told him the date of Dad's death. There have been a number of messages indicating a sense of urgency is necessary and it is to do with probate. Even if it is legit, it still smacks of incompetency, which annoys me nearly to the same extent.

I am not expecting anything, and I am expecting them to try to get my sister and I to hold onto the wine and not sell it, but even if there is less cash than was invested, then we want shot of them, this company do not inspire trust, confidence or anything else.

Part of me is tempted to not tell the solicitor about this, but they are the executor of the will, so that is certainly not an option, but of course, I shall take her advice on it, as although in the grand scheme of things its not a huge amount of cash, and even with the full amount, Dad is below the IHT threshold, but that is not the point, these things have to be done properly, and Dad was always one for doing things properly, (not counting the legality of such things.....)

Thanks again for your support

Dodgy wine investment???

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