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ParkingEye - POPLA appeal

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IndieGirl
IndieGirl Posts: 43 Forumite
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edited 22 May 2018 at 12:23PM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hello all

I have held off starting a new thread for a good few days, and have spent that time trawling previous threads and even other sites. I have given myself a headache and now am asking for advice.

Keeper received a PCN from ParkingEye claiming that the Driver had parked without a valid permit at the Holiday Inn Milton Keynes. The Driver had parked for around 30 minutes and had a coffee in the hotel - paid in cash and didn't take/keep receipt (Driver having used the car park many times previously for family member pick ups and not having noticed any signs that this new restriction was in place)

The Keeper appealed using one of the templates here. This appeal was rejected and Keeper got a POPLA reference.

Keeper also contacted the hotel and was told that unless the driver can prove they were in the hotel there is nothing they can do to help. They say they can only cancel the charge if the driver has proof of purchasing something in the bar.

Keeper will now submit a POPLA appeal - but don't know on what grounds. Honest driver mistake so no evidence and the NTK arrived within the time limit. The NTK also has the POFA paragraph. I don't know what signage is like and cannot check as live nowhere near.

Has this Keeper any grounds to appeal?

Sorry to create another thread but my head is spinning and I can't access some of the template letters despite re-configuring my PC to read RTFs.

Any advice very much appreciated.
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  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
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    You need to persevere with the FAQ


    #3 there does cover popla appeals in depth along with near templates to use


    Still keep on at the hotel - escalate to their head office. The driver was a regular customer!!
  • IndieGirl
    IndieGirl Posts: 43 Forumite
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    Ok - here is what I've come up with - any advice appreciated

    PCN Number: XXXXX
    Vehicle Registration: XXXXX

    I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated 03/05/2018 acting as a notice to the registered keeper. My appeal to the operator !!!8211; ParkingEye Ltd !!!8211; was submitted and acknowledged on 10/05/2018 but subsequently rejected by an email dated 21/05/2018. I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and wish to appeal against it on the following grounds:

    1 - The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge
    2 - No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice



    1 - No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

    As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the land then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner.

    The contract and any 'site agreement' or 'User Manual' setting out details - such as any 'genuine customer' or 'genuine resident' exemptions or any site occupier's 'right of veto' charge cancellation rights, and of course all enforcement dates/times/days, and the boundary of the site - is key evidence to define what this operator is authorised to do, and when/where.

    It cannot be assumed, just because an agent is contracted to merely put some signs up and issue Parking Charge Notices, that the agent is authorised on the material date, to make contracts with all or any category of visiting drivers and/or to enforce the charge in court in their own name (legal action regarding land use disputes generally being a matter for a landowner only).

    Witness statements are not sound evidence of the above, often being pre-signed, generic documents not even identifying the case in hand or even the site rules. A witness statement might in some cases be accepted by POPLA but in this case I suggest it is unlikely to sufficiently evidence the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement.

    Nor would it define vital information such as charging days/times, any exemption clauses, grace periods (which I believe may be longer than the bare minimum times set out in the BPA CoP) and basic but crucial information such as the site boundary and any bays where enforcement applies/does not apply. Not forgetting evidence of the only restrictions which the landowner has authorised can give rise to a charge, as well as the date that the parking contract began, and when it runs to, or whether it runs in perpetuity, and of course, who the signatories are: name/job title/employer company, and whether they are authorised by the landowner to sign a binding legal agreement.

    Paragraph 7 of the BPA CoP defines the mandatory requirements and I put this operator to strict proof of full compliance:

    7.2 If the operator wishes to take legal action on any outstanding parking charges, they must ensure that they have the written authority of the landowner (or their appointed agent) prior to legal action being taken.

    7.3 The written authorisation must also set out:

    a the definition of the land on which you may operate, so that the boundaries of the land can be clearly defined

    b any conditions or restrictions on parking control and enforcement operations, including any restrictions on hours of operation

    c any conditions or restrictions on the types of vehicles that may, or may not, be subject to parking control and enforcement

    d who has the responsibility for putting up and maintaining signs

    e the definition of the services provided by each party to the agreement

    2- The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge

    In cases with a keeper appellant, yet no POFA 'keeper liability' to rely upon, POPLA must first consider whether they are confident that the Assessor knows who the driver is, based on the evidence received. No presumption can be made about liability whatsoever. A vehicle can be driven by any person (with the consent of the owner) as long as the driver is insured. There is no dispute that the driver was entitled to drive the car and I can confirm that they were, but I am exercising my right not to name that person.

    In this case, no other party apart from an evidenced driver can be told to pay. As there has been no admission regarding who was driving, and no evidence has been produced, it has been held by POPLA on numerous occasions, that a parking charge cannot be enforced against a keeper without a valid NTK.

    As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver, yet still not be lawfully held liable if an operator is not using or complying with Schedule 4. This applies regardless of when the first appeal was made and regardless of whether a purported 'NTK' was served or not, because the fact remains I am only appealing as the keeper and ONLY Schedule 4 of the POFA (or evidence of who was driving) can cause a keeper appellant to be deemed to be the liable party.

    The burden of proof rests with the Operator to show that (as an individual) I have personally not complied with terms in place on the land and show that I am personally liable for their parking charge. They cannot.

    Furthermore, the vital matter of full compliance with the POFA was confirmed by parking law expert barrister, Henry Greenslade, the previous POPLA Lead Adjudicator, in 2015:

    Understanding keeper liability
    'There appears to be continuing misunderstanding about Schedule 4. Provided certain conditions are strictly complied with, it provides for recovery of unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.

    There is no 'reasonable presumption' in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver. Operators should never suggest anything of the sort. Further, a failure by the recipient of a notice issued under Schedule 4 to name the driver, does not of itself mean that the recipient has accepted that they were the driver at the material time. Unlike, for example, a Notice of Intended Prosecution where details of the driver of a vehicle must be supplied when requested by the police, pursuant to Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, a keeper sent a Schedule 4 notice has no legal obligation to name the driver. [...] If {POFA 2012 Schedule 4 is} not complied with then keeper liability does not generally pass.'

    Therefore, no lawful right exists to pursue unpaid parking charges from myself as keeper of the vehicle, where an operator cannot transfer the liability for the charge using the POFA.

    This exact finding was made in 6061796103 against ParkingEye in September 2016, where POPLA Assessor Carly Law found:
    ''I note the operator advises that it is not attempting to transfer the liability for the charge using the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and so in mind, the operator continues to hold the driver responsible. As such, I must first consider whether I am confident that I know who the driver is, based on the evidence received. After considering the evidence, I am unable to confirm that the appellant is in fact the driver. As such, I must allow the appeal on the basis that the operator has failed to demonstrate that the appellant is the driver and therefore liable for the charge. As I am allowing the appeal on this basis, I do not need to consider the other grounds of appeal raised by the appellant. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.''
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,638 Forumite
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    IndieGirl wrote: »
    Has this Keeper any grounds to appeal?

    As the driver never noticed any signs, surely one point of appeal would be the unremarkable signs.
  • IndieGirl
    IndieGirl Posts: 43 Forumite
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    KeithP wrote: »
    As the driver never noticed any signs, surely one point of appeal would be the unremarkable signs.

    Thanks - I could add this - as neither I nor the driver live anywhere near this car park we are unable to go and check/take photos - do you think this will be an issue?
  • IndieGirl
    IndieGirl Posts: 43 Forumite
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    Quentin wrote: »
    You need to persevere with the FAQ


    Still keep on at the hotel - escalate to their head office. The driver was a regular customer!!

    Thanks - I have emailed head office so hope they will step in...
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    edited 22 May 2018 at 6:27PM
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    Every POPLA appeal includes the 'dodgy signs' template, or a version like it. :)

    Remove this waffly intro that someone wrote, fill of ''I'' split infinitives and split verbs, and says nowt!
    I, the registered keeper of this vehicle, received a letter dated 03/05/2018 acting as a notice to the registered keeper. My appeal to the operator ParkingEye Ltd was submitted and acknowledged on 10/05/2018 but subsequently rejected by an email dated 21/05/2018. I contend that I, as the keeper, am not liable for the alleged parking charge and

    ''I'' should never be followed by a comma!

    Any POPLA appeal can simply start:
    I am the registered keeper and appeal against the PCN on the following grounds:

    Add the new appeal point about not complying with the ICO Surveillance Camera Code of Practice (Search the forum for those words plus the word POPLA). You will find it used in April & May so far. One example of it is on page one right now, by another PE victim working on a Hotel POPLA appeal, called Reue.

    As I said to Reue, your priority MUST be to exhaust the Head Office/Manager complaint. BEFORE POPLA!

    Keep trying, make yourself a thorn in their side and tell them you've tried the (almost always declined by parking firms) first appeal but you daren't try POPLA yet, because after POPLA, if you do not win, PE will NOT then cancel, even if the Hotel finally assists you as a patron. PE will warble on about spending money on POPLA, whereas now, they will cancel without a quibble.

    Demand they help and assist you NOW, after all it's one email to them, no skin off their nose at all to cancel. Not hard.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • IndieGirl
    IndieGirl Posts: 43 Forumite
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    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    Every POPLA appeal includes the 'dodgy signs' template, or a version like it. :)

    Remove this waffly intro that someone wrote, fill of ''I'' split infinitives and split verbs, and says nowt!


    ''I'' should never be followed by a comma!

    I did hate that intro but yes just copied from elsewhere thinking that was 'approved' wording!! It sounds terrible! :rotfl:

    Thank you very much for the advice - will amend now and will hope for a response from Head Office.
  • IndieGirl
    IndieGirl Posts: 43 Forumite
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    Hmm - seems hotel are not going to help - just had third response from them saying that they work closely with PE and that they must have proof of driver's patronage in order to cancel PCN

    Will keep on with Head Office until I have to submit the POPLA appeal
  • IndieGirl
    IndieGirl Posts: 43 Forumite
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    Ok - so Customer Services for Head Office have replied - my best option is 'to continue working with ParkingEye' - what rubbish. Don't think they are going to help though.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    ''working with'' Parking Eye?

    Send them a link to the Parliamentary debate on 2nd Feb when PE were named & shamed, and the appeals system completely trashed as a 'scam' by MPs:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5787731

    https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    Read this similar thread and be more robust or you will be sued by PE:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74224431#post74224431

    That one says what to say in your next email, quoting the MPs exactly.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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