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  • FIRST POST
    • Former MSE Helen
    • By Former MSE Helen 29th May 12, 11:12 AM
    • 2,324Posts
    • 971Thanks
    Former MSE Helen
    MSE News: OFT calls for dentist industry shake-up
    • #1
    • 29th May 12, 11:12 AM
    MSE News: OFT calls for dentist industry shake-up 29th May 12 at 11:12 AM
    "The Office of Fair Trading found some dentists deliberately push patients into expensive private care ..."

Page 1
    • richardw
    • By richardw 29th May 12, 12:07 PM
    • 19,082 Posts
    • 8,072 Thanks
    richardw
    • #2
    • 29th May 12, 12:07 PM
    • #2
    • 29th May 12, 12:07 PM
    Can't the NHS just employ dentists to be just NHS Dentists for NHS Dental patients?
    Posts are not advice and must not be relied upon.
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 29th May 12, 12:26 PM
    • 9,255 Posts
    • 11,155 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    • #3
    • 29th May 12, 12:26 PM
    • #3
    • 29th May 12, 12:26 PM
    The OFT report has some good recommendations.

    The figures have been completely misrepresented though.

    The figure of half a million patients being misled comes from a base sample of only 158 people (out of 3000) who said it had happened to them!

    And a lot of the patients were asking for treatments that weren't available on the NHS anyway!

    To turn the base figures they have into some of the articles that have been written about it today is pure spin, and not worthy of the supposedly independent Office of Fair Trading.

    Thank goodness Pasties have taken a higher priority in the news today!
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 29th May 12, 12:32 PM
    • 9,255 Posts
    • 11,155 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    • #4
    • 29th May 12, 12:32 PM
    • #4
    • 29th May 12, 12:32 PM
    Can't the NHS just employ dentists to be just NHS Dentists for NHS Dental patients?
    Originally posted by richardw

    They could indeed.

    The reason they don't is that it is much more expensive for the Government to set up and run clinics tha it is to let the dentists take all the business risks and just contract to them with ever worsening terms - and then blame the dentists when they stop providing NHS services.

    About 15 yrs ago a lot of 'Dental Access Centres' were set up by Tony Blair's government (Funnily enough, a lot of them were in Labour marginal consituencies) to 'show' dentists they weren't afraid to take them on and set up their own clinics.

    These clinics barely lasted a couple of years before it was shown to be a hugely expensive mistake, and they were quietly closed down.

    At the time, I think the average cost to the taxpayer of an NHS dental visit in dentist owned practices was about 37. In the Access centres it was audited at well over 200!!
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • Lum
    • By Lum 29th May 12, 12:42 PM
    • 6,369 Posts
    • 3,887 Thanks
    Lum
    • #5
    • 29th May 12, 12:42 PM
    • #5
    • 29th May 12, 12:42 PM
    NHS dentist? What's one of those then?
    • picardygirl
    • By picardygirl 29th May 12, 12:48 PM
    • 539 Posts
    • 226 Thanks
    picardygirl
    • #6
    • 29th May 12, 12:48 PM
    • #6
    • 29th May 12, 12:48 PM
    Is there a standard charge for certain procedures in an NHS dentist ...... we (my family of four) belong to our local NHS dentist, my husband lost a filling last week so booked an appointment to see the dentist, he put a temporary filling in it and charged 30 for it.

    He was told he needed to have a crown (or have the tooth filed right down, which he doesnt want) and another tooth required a filling ...... at the cost of 330! Are these charges about right, can anybody shed any light? Thanks in advance
    • Pennylane
    • By Pennylane 29th May 12, 1:02 PM
    • 2,131 Posts
    • 6,270 Thanks
    Pennylane
    • #7
    • 29th May 12, 1:02 PM
    • #7
    • 29th May 12, 1:02 PM
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9295340/Dentists-forcing-500000-NHS-patients-to-pay-privately-report.html#

    The majority of people in this poll believe their dentist is ripping them off.
  • rachbc
    • #8
    • 29th May 12, 1:12 PM
    • #8
    • 29th May 12, 1:12 PM
    Is there a standard charge for certain procedures in an NHS dentist ...... we (my family of four) belong to our local NHS dentist, my husband lost a filling last week so booked an appointment to see the dentist, he put a temporary filling in it and charged 30 for it.

    He was told he needed to have a crown (or have the tooth filed right down, which he doesnt want) and another tooth required a filling ...... at the cost of 330! Are these charges about right, can anybody shed any light? Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by picardygirl
    NHS dental chage bands.

    He should have been cahrged 17.50 for the emergency treatment and then 209 for the crown etc. I beleive the total cost shoud lbe 209 so the 17.50 should come off the final bill.
    People seem not to see that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character.
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    • Rupert Bear
    • By Rupert Bear 29th May 12, 1:13 PM
    • 1,268 Posts
    • 630 Thanks
    Rupert Bear
    • #9
    • 29th May 12, 1:13 PM
    • #9
    • 29th May 12, 1:13 PM
    I used to go for regular check ups at a NHS dentist. I had this particular problem with a tooth and the dentist just dismissed it. I went back 4 times complaining. She eventually took at x-ray and it was a badly infected tooth. When I queried why it took her 4 appointments to diagnose
    the problem she blamed me because I did not make enough fuss about the pain.

    Now I do not bother going to a regular dentist because in my area we have a NHS Access clinic and they will see you on the day if you are in pain.
    Last edited by Rupert Bear; 29-05-2012 at 1:16 PM.
    • picardygirl
    • By picardygirl 29th May 12, 1:15 PM
    • 539 Posts
    • 226 Thanks
    picardygirl
    NHS dental chage bands.

    He should have been cahrged 17.50 for the emergency treatment and then 209 for the crown etc. I beleive the total cost shoud lbe 209 so the 17.50 should come off the final bill.
    Originally posted by rachbc
    He was charged 30 for the emergency treatment, and i asked him if this would come of the total bill ...... and he said NO. He needs the treatment done over 3 appointments, the first one he had made for next week, I may go with him to ask more questions!
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 29th May 12, 1:15 PM
    • 9,255 Posts
    • 11,155 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9295340/Dentists-forcing-500000-NHS-patients-to-pay-privately-report.html#

    The majority of people in this poll believe their dentist is ripping them off.
    Originally posted by Pennylane

    Well I've managed to vote 'No' 5 times in the last 2 mins! So hardly a good poll!
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 29th May 12, 1:18 PM
    • 9,255 Posts
    • 11,155 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    He was charged 30 for the emergency treatment, and i asked him if this would come of the total bill ...... and he said NO. He needs the treatment done over 3 appointments, the first one he had made for next week, I may go with him to ask more questions!
    Originally posted by picardygirl

    Where do you live?

    The dental charge bands do not apply to Scotland or Northern Ireland.
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • picardygirl
    • By picardygirl 29th May 12, 1:21 PM
    • 539 Posts
    • 226 Thanks
    picardygirl
    Where do you live?

    The dental charge bands do not apply to Scotland or Northern Ireland.
    Originally posted by Toothsmith
    Outskirts of London, we are not entitled to any benefits etc would this make a difference?
    • picardygirl
    • By picardygirl 29th May 12, 1:23 PM
    • 539 Posts
    • 226 Thanks
    picardygirl
    Could they be trying to charge private charges (but would have assumed private charges would have been alot higher) ......??
    • welshdent
    • By welshdent 29th May 12, 1:29 PM
    • 1,905 Posts
    • 1,250 Thanks
    welshdent
    People often ASSUME private charges would be higher. Much of that assumption is not based on reality but on scaremongering stories in the press. There is no national price setting cartel. Private practices set their own fees based on varying factors from staffing and material costs, lab fees etc. it's variable.

    An interesting point for me is direct access to a hygienist. As a matter of interest who think that direct access like this should be on the nhs? Who assumed that's what the report is advocating?
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 29th May 12, 1:49 PM
    • 9,255 Posts
    • 11,155 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    Could they be trying to charge private charges (but would have assumed private charges would have been alot higher) ......??
    Originally posted by picardygirl
    They aren't English NHS charges. So they probably are private charges.

    As Welsh said though, the reports you see of 'private' charges in newspapers are never really representative of actual prices!

    It's very like restaurants and prices.

    A restaurtrant will set it's prices depending on it's location, the quality of it's staff and ingredients and the type of client it's trying to attract.

    So you will get a good mix of restaurants in any location at various different price points, and the odd one that to most resonable people would seem to be very expensive.

    This is the dental practice that the papers tend to base their figures on when they give 'private' prices. Not so much an 'average' as the dearest price they've found when they've rung around a few places!
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • scotsbob
    • By scotsbob 29th May 12, 2:31 PM
    • 4,461 Posts
    • 6,958 Thanks
    scotsbob
    On a radio phone in programme this morning the dentists council put up Tony Lamb as their spokesman. For a whole hour people phoned in with their complaints about private dentists and he pooh poohed every one of them.
    At the end of the hour the presenter pointed out that every one who phoned had complaints and despite this and the OFT report he just refused to accept there is a problem.
    • scotsbob
    • By scotsbob 29th May 12, 2:34 PM
    • 4,461 Posts
    • 6,958 Thanks
    scotsbob
    Well I've managed to vote 'No' 5 times in the last 2 mins! So hardly a good poll!
    Originally posted by Toothsmith
    I've voted "yes" 6 times to balance up your trying to cheat the poll.
    • Toothsmith
    • By Toothsmith 29th May 12, 2:42 PM
    • 9,255 Posts
    • 11,155 Thanks
    Toothsmith
    I've voted "yes" 6 times to balance up your trying to cheat the poll.
    Originally posted by scotsbob

    Well, we've both shown it to be about as valid as a North Korean election then!
    How to find a dentist.
    1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
    2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
    3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
    4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.
    • picardygirl
    • By picardygirl 29th May 12, 2:49 PM
    • 539 Posts
    • 226 Thanks
    picardygirl
    They aren't English NHS charges. So they probably are private charges.

    Originally posted by Toothsmith
    Thanks for your help ....... I'm beginning to wonder why they are wanting to charge him so much money ....... been online to NHS choices and the specific dentist is and still accepting NHS dentists ..... so i wonder why they are wanting to charge private charges ........ something to investigate! If we need to pay private charges I'd much rather go to a nicer dentists (our specific dentist is a lovely chap, but the practice itself is awful).

    I do know, last year before my son (14) had his brace fitted, he required a small filling in a back tooth, and was told he could have a white filling but we would have to pay, fair enough, but that was our choice out of vanity !

    My OH's dental treatment hasnt started yet, his first appointment is next week!
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