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BW Legal County Court Defence
colloq
Posts: 169 Forumite
Hi,
I received a final LBC in Dec 17 for a Parking ticket of 02/2012. I blanked out the details;
hxxps://ibb.co/dqHXew
Not long after this I received County Court Papers which I will attach below;
hxxps://i.imgur.com/iorLIRD.jpg
I don't ever recall receiving the original LBC which would of been dated November 17. I want to challenge them on this, as it seems like they've purposely dropped the Final LBC and Court papers over Xmas / New year knowing how everyones schedules are etc.
I've followed the advice of the newbies section and completed the Acknowledgment online which I believe gives me 33 days to complete a defence? Is this 33 days exactly from the Issue date of 8/1/18?
Im guessing it now is irrelevant that the claim will be 6yrs old next week now they've submitted the claim form.
I've not submitted any defence as of yet, i'm a bit stressed about it all.
The car park in question is completely free. It is provided free of charge with no tickets being obtained to use the facilities on site. I've contacted the bank to obtain proof that I used the facilities on the date in question 6-years ago.
Where do I start with my defence :eek:
Edited to add ----
hxxp://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/excel-lose-driver-left-leisure-park.html
I've came accross an article on Parking prankster, which refers to the same month/year and "style" ticket that I've obtained - Leaving the car park leisure facilities/parked in a restricted area of the car park"
I received a final LBC in Dec 17 for a Parking ticket of 02/2012. I blanked out the details;
hxxps://ibb.co/dqHXew
Not long after this I received County Court Papers which I will attach below;
hxxps://i.imgur.com/iorLIRD.jpg
I don't ever recall receiving the original LBC which would of been dated November 17. I want to challenge them on this, as it seems like they've purposely dropped the Final LBC and Court papers over Xmas / New year knowing how everyones schedules are etc.
I've followed the advice of the newbies section and completed the Acknowledgment online which I believe gives me 33 days to complete a defence? Is this 33 days exactly from the Issue date of 8/1/18?
Im guessing it now is irrelevant that the claim will be 6yrs old next week now they've submitted the claim form.
I've not submitted any defence as of yet, i'm a bit stressed about it all.
The car park in question is completely free. It is provided free of charge with no tickets being obtained to use the facilities on site. I've contacted the bank to obtain proof that I used the facilities on the date in question 6-years ago.
Where do I start with my defence :eek:
Edited to add ----
hxxp://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/06/excel-lose-driver-left-leisure-park.html
I've came accross an article on Parking prankster, which refers to the same month/year and "style" ticket that I've obtained - Leaving the car park leisure facilities/parked in a restricted area of the car park"
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Comments
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.Im guessing it now is irrelevant that the claim will be 6yrs old next week now they've submitted the claim form
Correct. That's the point of issuing prior to statutory limitation. There may be arguments as to whether they can reasonably expect interest dating back to 2012 when they have waited so long to bring the claim.
Your defence will need to highlight that you have no record of a LoC and set out in detail in the defence why the PoC are defective, such that you are prejudiced.I don't ever recall receiving the original LBC which would of been dated November 17.
*No proper details of car park or infringement
*No details of parking contract (parking terms)
*No detail of parking contract (additional charges)
*No proper statement of truth
Most of those points are dealt with in other threads, they are common. The Civil Procedure Rules require claimants to set out the contract terms they rely on and a named individual to endorse a claim form, not a law firm.
The proceedings are defective and that is more of a problem so long after the material event.0 -
There will also be NO KEEPER LIABILIty possible, as this was 8 months before it started in 2012. So key pooint is that they have the wrong defendnat - they must chase the driver.0
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So I've been trying to establish a defence, and have based it around a similar case in the exact same month/location as this one, which in turn the Defendant won at the local crown court;
1. The Particulars of Claim do not state a clear cause of action. The Claimant has given no indication of the nature of the alleged contravention in the Particulars of Claim.
1.1 I therefore request the court to strike out the claim using their court management powers, for disclosing no cause of action or for the court to order further & better particulars of claim and leave for the defendant to amend their defence.
2. I defend as registered keeper. After 6 years, I am not able to say who was driving the car at the time in question. Assumptions cannot be made, particularly as this claimant is well known for citing the totally inappropriate criminal case of Elliott v Loake to infer the driver
** It'll be 6 years by the time the defence is likely to be submitted, if I submit it in early its likely to be 5 Years 11 Months, how should this be phrased **
3. The signage was inadequate to form a contract with the motorist. The claim is for Parked in a restricted area of the car park.
The signage also back in 2012 was for a fine to be paid in 7 days, this has since changed to 14 days.
I also, believe that the PCN was in relation to "Being seen walking away from the Leisure Park" How can I go about obtaining the actual PCN from them prior to submitting a defence, or are they likely to decline sending anything before a defence is provided?
The Signage in regards to "walking away from Leisure park" is also very small, and would be likely to be regarded as inadequate sizing for a motorist to see. I've pictures of this from Google images before and after the incident.
4. The Claimant has no standing to bring a case.
4.1 Neither the claim form, nor the signage state who the owner of the land is.
4.2 The signage states that "Excel Parking Services LTD manage and control this car park". Excel Parking Services LTD are therefore acting as an agent of the landowner. As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name. Any claim should be in the name of the landowner.
4.3 If Excel Parking Services LTD deny acting as an agent, they are put to strict proof by disclosing the appropriate parts of their contract with the landowner.
5. The Particulars of Claim state that "The Claimant also claims £54.00 contractual costs pursuant to the PCN Terms and Conditions".
5.1 Previous letters to the defendant from BW Legal have stated that the £54.00 claimed is "for our client's initial legal fees".
5.2 Legal services cannot be claimed in the small claims court as per CPR 27.14
6. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis (2015) UKSC 67 (The Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage which formed a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a license to park fee. None of this applies in this case.
7. The claim includes a sum of £50, described as "Legal representative's costs". This work is done as part of the Claimant's everyday routine and no "expert services" are involved. The Claimant is put to strict proof, by way of timesheets or otherwise, to show how this cost has been incurred.
8. The Unfair terms in the Consumer contact regulations 1999 applies.
8.1 The claim is in breach of Regulations 8 (1) of the regulation and article 6 (1) of the Unfair Terms directive (in providing that an unfair term is not to be binding on the consumer).0 -
Does my defence need to be sent in writing or can it be completed online?
Im also anxious about the fact that I have no idea what Excel are going to try use against me0 -
You can send it onlineDoes my defence need to be sent in writing or can it be completed online?
Im also anxious about the fact that I have no idea what Excel are going to try use against me
Ask them to resend the original LBCCA you don't recall receiving which should show you the details of the "debt"0 -
You can send it online
You can, but this is not advised. Sending it online destroys the formatting, and splits the text over several pages, making it difficult for a Judge to read. Why would you want to start your court hearing with a disgruntled Judge?
It should be on a separate pdf document, with the name of the court, the claim number, the names of the parties stating which is the claimant and which is the defendant in the heading, then the word 'Defence' between two parallel lines.
The text should be written in the third person, in a series of numbered paragraphs, all formatted in Times Roman 12 pt with 1.5 line spacing. It should be signed and dated at the end with a Statement of Truth.
And get rid of para. 8, the UTCCR argument was defeated in the Beavis case, you will get nowhere with that.
I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 57, lost 14), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and have a Graduate Diploma in Civil Litigation from CILEx. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.0 -
You have misunderstood either my reply or the original question (which was send it online or in writing?)You can, but this is not advised. ....... Why would you want to start your court hearing with a disgruntled Judge?.......
I replied on the assumption the question was should it be sent online or snail mail?
Why would I post advice to deliberately disgruntle a judge?0 -
You have misunderstood either my reply or the original question (which was send it online or in writing?)
I replied on the assumption the question was should it be sent online or snail mail?
Why would I post advice to deliberately disgruntle a judge?
i believe the original question suggested that the OP thought he could submit it online via MCOL, which is what I was trying to steer him away from.
Once the document has been created, it can be sent by email and/or by post, preferably both.
I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 57, lost 14), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and have a Graduate Diploma in Civil Litigation from CILEx. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.0 -
You are both right - email attachment it is.
PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0
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