Help with condemed flat please

Vampgirl

I'm asking for help on behalf of a couple of friends who are furnished tennants in Manchester. Their flat has been in quite bad disrepair (leaking roof amongst other things) for a while now and it taken them about 9 months of calling every week to get the landlord to start repairs (only once they involved the local council did the landlord actually take any action). All correspondance with the landlord is via an agency in Milton Keynes and the landlord is actually a company rather than a person. A surveyor came around a couple of weeks ago and I believe that the work was supposed to start today, but they were told this morning that the flat is condemed and they can't stay there any more! They've been given some time to collect possesions but they cannot sleep there tonight.

My friends are desperately trying to make alternative accommodation arrangements (luckily they've both managed to get the day off work) but I'm sure that because they have an AST that the landlord should be providing the girls with alternative accomodation, is this true? Given the landord/agency's behavious thus far, I don't hold out much hope of them doing the right thing so I wonder if anyone can tell me what are their rights in these circumstances?

Edited to add: The AST would have been signed last autumn - September or October if I remember correctly, but I don't know whether it was 6 months fixed plus 6 months or 12 months fixed if this makes a difference.

*jobags*

Bloomin heck - keep pressing thanks instead of reply:mad:

Who says the flat has been condemned? - maybe the landlord wants them out of the flat PDQ as he sees them as troublemakers

Have they been paying rent in advance and if so will they be getting a refund?

Start with Building Control at the Council and see if they have condemned it

The landlord should really be finding them alternative accomodation - I would suggest a call to the Homeless unit at the council and ask to speak to a housing advisor

Jo

Vampgirl

It was environmental health that condemed it - the lettings agency have been a nightmare to deal with apparently they knew on Friday that EH would be round to the flat today to condem it, but didn't pass this information on to my friends. The woman who made this decision is now conveniently on holiday :mad: They have been in contact with various departments of the council already - it wasn't until the council got involved that the landlord made efforts to repair the flat. In fact one of the girls is talking directly with the council and builders to find out what is going on as the agency never tell them anything.

They are really good tennants - always pay their rent on time. One of the girls has lived there for about 3 years, the other one moved in last autumn (at which point there was a new AST issued with their names on) and they're happy to stay indefinately if the roof is fixed (personally I'd have found somewhere else given the less than full co-operation from the landlord and agency), I think they like the flat because its convenient for transport to work.

What I really need to know though is if there is some kind of legislation that they can quote to the agency to force them to find them somewhere to stay tonight.

tbs624

Ring Shelter's Helpline straight away 0800 0808 4444 - your friends should not move out of the property without getting proper advice first.

Have they also spoken to the Tenancy Relations Officer (on the private sector team) at the local council's Housing dept . If they haven't they should get on the phone this afternoon and be persistent - the TRO can liaise with both the LLs and the EHO.

The LLs will have been in breach of their legal obligations to their Tenants under S11 of the Landlord & Tenant Act by allowing the property to fall into disrepair

Vampgirl

Thanks for the advice :-)
Just spoke to one of the girls...she's understandably distressed but very determined to get this sorted (and is now fully aware of her rights to alternative accomodation). Apparently not only have EH condemed the flat, but there are also fire safety issues :mad: They have been in close contact with the local TRO - it was him who brought the EH and the fire brigade into it in the first place.

EH have told them in no uncertain terms that they will be allowed limited daytime access to the flat to clear out possessions only - they are not allowed to stay there overnight. The problem now is that the lettings agency will not arrange alternative accomodation until they receive the EH report, after that they will put them up in a B&B until suitable alternative accomodation can be found. So at least the landlord/agency appear to be toe-ing the line so far.... We'll see what happens though, if the report is not delivered by 3pm today then my friend will be on the phone again chasing it up. They've both managed to make arrangements to stay with friends tonight if necessary. My worry is that they'll be stuck in a B&B for months, but somehow I don't think the girls are going to stand for that.

Neither the agency nor the landlord are making themselves look good in this: the fire issues not only relate to their flat, but also the commercial premises on the ground floor (same landlord). Also the structural issues and the roof .... well if the landlord had acted on these when they were first notified of a problem then its likely that the roof wouldn't have been so bad (its deteriorated pretty quickly over the past 9 months).

As for the lettings agency - these act on behalf of the landlord in all areas (my friends have no contact with the landlord) and they never return calls, never arrange contractors and never communicate arrangements. Today it transpires that the lady who usually deals with the flat is on holiday, her collegue who has taken over from her has no idea what's going on and the computer system is about 4 years out of date: on their computer the lease details they have is for the orginal 3 tenants and they told my friend who moved in last year that she wasn't on the lease - luckily she hads all her paperwork in good order so is able to prove that the agency!

I have rented for years and have obviously been very lucky in that I've always had good landlords or agencies. This whole thing makes me think that there should be some form of referencing system for landlords as well as tenants!

tbs624

TROs are normally excellent at keeping tenants fully informed in disrepair cases, so am surprised that everything has been so last-minute. Not that it helps your friends, but the LL will be pursued by the Council under the Housing Act and the Environmental Protection Act etc, and may face fines of several thousand for fire safety breaches.

Have there been regular services of gas boilers/appliances & is there a current gas certificate( both now and for previous years) for the property? If not that is another area under which the LL can be prosecuted.

Your friends would need to pursue their own action via the courts for any recompense for disrepair/breach of contract/difficulties with deposit returns etc, so should keep careful records of what is said and receipts for any money that they have to pay out.Tell them to take photos of the property for their own records, if they haven't done so already. As well as the Shelter advisors, they can get help from the local CAB or law centre, or ask for a fixed fee interview with a good local solicitor: with any of these options they should always ask specifically for someone who has LL & T law expertise.

In the unlikely event of the Agent being a member of ARLA or similar, they should also put in a formal complaint.

Oh, and your friends should contact the Council Tax dept in writing, because AFAIAA C Tax should not be due on a condemned property .

If possible, do keep this board up to date with what happens because it all helps other tenants who may unfortunately find themselves in a similar situation.

markelock

why would they live in such a sh!thole for 3 years? is property is demand in the area?

nice landlord by the sounds of it.

Loretta

I am not sure exactly what their position is it is a long time since I worked in this field but I think that once a building is condemned their position is different. If they have, say, a bad leak or something like that I they cannot live there while the work and repairs are being carried out I think that the L/L has to provide them with somewhere else that is similar for the same rent.

Could it be that the council has put a 'repair notice' on the building, this means that they have ordered the L/L to do the repairs within .... days or the council will do it and charge the L/L.

It is very difficult to get a council to condemn a building because your rights change then. Up until at least 1989 when I last worked, and I have no idea if the situation has changed now, with this it used to be the council did almost anything they could to avoid condemning a building because once they did the council had a responsibility to house tenants, whether or not they had children etc, and they had to pay compensation to the L/L too. This was what Hoogstraten used to do, he would get the house condemed, he would take the roof off, remove the sataicase etc to get the tenants out, the council would house them and then the council had to pay him compensation. In the council where I worked I think he was just about the only L/L who managed to get his properties condemned, it didn't cost him too much either despite the low wages the council paid!! I think the intimidation did the trick with building control & EH! Other L/Ls would get a repair order instead and the the council would pursue the L/L thorugh the courts for the money or confiscate the property

These companies who own a lot of properties have excellent legal advice and know how to play the game and the council solicitors don't usually know how to argue the case.

Phone Shelter I am sure they will know exactly what to do

Vampgirl

Well the latest update is that they have been allowed to spend tonight in the property, EH will service the notice tomorrow and then there are 2 possible outcomes depenant on the landlord:
1. Landlord puts them in a hotel or house while the work is done
2. Landlord says he can't do the works in the timescale given and serves them notice to be out on the same day!

I don't know who is advising them (I did suggest they call Shelter), I think its mostly the TRO who they are getting the information from. I thought your AST was supposed to protect you against this kind of thing, but apparently not :-(

zebulon

Vampgirl wrote: »

2. Landlord says he can't do the works in the timescale given and serves them notice to be out on the same day!

:rotfl:
where the hell does that come from?
whoever said that, your friends have to stop listening to this person

Vampgirl

zebulon wrote: »

:rotfl:
where the hell does that come from?
whoever said that, your friends have to stop listening to this person

Thanks - I'll let them know that. I thought it sounded rather strange but I'm no expert!