Boiler Quote

MATH

Please will any plumbers out there give me the benefit of their advice.
I have just received this quote to replace my existing boiler. The cost is supposed to incled a 'hefty discount' cos the guy owes me a favour. Do the figures look reasonable? I'm completly clueless Thanks

Drain down and disconnect old boiler

Fit Glow-Worm HXI Condensing Bolier.

Convert system to 'Y' plan

Re-fill system and test

£2162.88 incl VAT

Chemical de-sludge and flush (optional but recomended) £375.00 inc VAT

N9eav

I have no idea, but the boiler (depending on the BTU output) costs about £600.



Glow-Worm 18HXi Condensing Heating Boiler(Reference #108630)
Glow-Worm 18HXi Condensing Heating Boiler

Price ex VAT: £568.22£667.66 Including VAT at 17.5%

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Click here for Glow Worm 12 to 38HXi User, Service and Installation Guide [/font]

skintchick

I had my very old (dangerous) back boiler taken out, and a new Potterton combi boiler installed in another place, including LOTS of new pipework, for about £3,000 (can't remember exact figure now). Took them two or three days as I recall, one of those till 10pm!!!

That included a power flush as they refused not to do one of those as my system was old and I hadn't looked after it(!).

I am in Oxfordshire so usually quite costly round here.

Is that any help? Hope so.

Edit: that included removal of a rad in the spare room, and replacement of rad in hall which began leaking under the pressure of the new system!

Not convinced you're getting a great deal.

davef

Hi Math

Nearly fell off my chair when I read this. Not so much a hefty discount but a bonus trip to the carribean. I suggest you get atleast 3 other quotes and try to find a plumber who charges the 'right' rates. Word of mouth recommendations are the best.

Okay a good combi boiler (vaillant, worcester bosch etc) can be bought for as approx £600-700 upwards but is dependant on spec. Take a look at this site for price comparisons http://www.harrisonmccarthy.co.uk/index.htm

When you receive the quotes ask for a break down of parts & labour. You can work out the markup on the parts and see if you are being seen off. Also take a look at
http://www.whatprice.co.uk/plumbing.html

Fitting a boiler & converting to a sealed systen priced at approx £1400 (small plumbing firm) Bear in mind much depends on where you live etc.

Also to desludge & flush system is no more than £100-£150. You can buy the chemicals from screwfix direct.
1 litre of rust inhibitor (code 13162) is £3.69
1 litre of Sentinel X400 sludge remover (code 89458) is £12.29
1 litre of Sentinel X300 system cleanser (code 60631) is £12.99.

Hope this helps but please shop around and get atleast 3 quotes. Your 'friends' quote does not include a large discount, in fact the opposite.

Good luck
Dave



In Plymouth I can get a Worcester Bosch boiler & five rads supplied & fitted inc VAT for £1750. However I buy my own parts and pay a plumber to fit. My latest property is having 8 rads & boiler (total cost £1000) and I will pay no more than 3 days labour at £250 per day so £750 labour + £1000 parts - total £1750

MATH

Thanks davef, I suspected as much but really don't know anything about plumbing to judge. I have had another plumber round to quote which I should receive by the end of the week. I'm begining to get anxious now that we need to get the work done before a cold snap catches us out, we've been lucky that it has been so mild lately. Will post to let you know how thing progress.

davef

Hi Math

Yep you are doing the right thing. Get atleast another 2 quotes but don't give any prices away to any of them. Just make sure they quote parts & labour and inc VAT if registered.

I use to let the trades supply parts but since markups vary so much I now source most of my own. Also try your local plumbers merchants and see if you can negotiate a discount.

Plumbers hourly rates will vary greatly so worth asking around. Also I have read of some plumbers taking 8 hours to flush a system !!!!! all they need to do is 'load' the descaler/sludge remover and run the heating system over night. They can then return the following day to drain and refill system with rust inhibitor. At most a few hours.

I would add if you get a good plumber hang onto them. Like all the trades there are good and bad and make sure they are Corgi registered if they are working on gas appliances. Ask to see their Corgi id and if in any doubt ring up Corgi to check they are bonafide.

I would add that I am not a plumber but a developer so have seen and dealt with my fair share of good and bad tradespeople. I am also a firm believer in 'ask if you don't know or understand'.

Hope this all helps. Good luck

moneysavingplumber

Davef is right in that you should get a couple of quotes at least.

However, check what exactly is involved for the money. Judging by the fact that the quote includes updating the system to Y-plan, then I would assume you have a gravity hot water circuit and pumped heating. Updating this to fully pumped will add considerable expense, even more so than simply converting open vented fully-pumped to sealed system.

The chemical flush shouldn't really be optional as most manufacturers stipulate this as necessary and may not honour the warranty if faults occur due to existing sludge.

I would't necessarily recommend the route of supplying the materials yourself. Plumbers tend to be ok with this if it's for a developer like Davef but tend to be wary on private domestic work as there is a greater margin for error which often the installer ends up bearing the cost for in terms of time and messing about.

On balance, I don't much like the sound of your quote, not so much on cost but more because it appears far too brief and the desludge is rather expensive, and should be mandatory. Definitely get others, and make sure you have good detail of what is actually going to be done for the money. All boiler changes should now be compliant with building regulation part L which means automatic by-pass on the heating system, programmer, room thermostat, thermostatic radiator valves except on the rad closest to the room stat, energy efficient pump and cylinder thermostat. The installation should also be certified via Corgi with Building Control, for which you should receive a certificate after the installation.

robv_3

Its pretty easy to break down the quote yourself:-

2 days boiler installation
1 day conversion to y-plan and flushing
£600 @ 200 / day

Sparkie
£50

Boiler 800 quid
Flue 50 quid
Cylinder 120quid
Y-Plan / Timer 100 quid
Pipe / Connectors 50quid
Inhibitor / Power Flush 80quid
£1200

Removing rubbish
Getting Parts
Incase stuff goes wrong
Petrol
Van
Insurance (Van / Public)
Gas/Flux/Solder
Tool wear and tear
£200

£2050
£2408 (inc VAT)

Britsh Gas would be £3500+

Most of the time the trades do not get stuff cheaper than DIYers. Yes they get a discount in merchants but online / diy stores are just as cheap. One example is Screwfix endfeed connectors, they are a lot cheaper but the qualify is rubbish so will not use them. Shopping around would take time so costing more in the long run.

If people supply their own parts normally charge a extra day as something is always missing or harder to install. No-one ever supplies everything so still need to get some parts.

Just checking someone elses installing is not straight forward. Am I willing to put my name to it? What happens when it fails the gas safety check or another test? Wired correctly? Installation not finished? Not for me.

moneysavingplumber

Robv's costing is pretty spot-on for an average boiler change including conversion from gravity.

The example of British Gas costing is also pretty fair based on my experience, and they tend to use cheaper BG 'badged' controls, whereas most good self-employed plumbers will only generally use quality controls (because cheaper ones aren't worth the aggravation when they go wrong), Honeywell for example.

As I said in my response, it's not the cost of your quote but the brevity of detail and the fact he hasn't insisted you have the desludge.

robv_3

Forgot thermostatic valves from the quote which will be required on all bedroom rads at least. As part of a boiler upgrade....

£30 per valve inc labour

They can be a pain to fit as the tails always need replacing.

MATH

Thanks for all your replies, I have since my original post got other firms around to quote the job but as yet they have failed to send written quotations by the date they said despite me chasing them up by telephone and waiting a further week which makes me wonder how reliable they wiould be if they started a job.

I will let you know any further developments as they occur!