Faster payments - who can send and receive

newlywed

Mikeyorks wrote: »

Wages don't generally use FP? They're sent by BACS Direct Credit ..... which will continue to use the old BACS links as there is no float involved. Just the same as DDs will continue to use BACs .... again as no float (interest to the Banks) is involved.

In that case strange that my wages are showing up same day instead of the usual three days later

Small firm with only a few employees though if that makes any difference?

Milarky

newlywed wrote: »

In that case strange that my wages are showing up same day instead of the usual three days later

Small firm with only a few employees though if that makes any difference?

Need some clarification on this: How are you usually paid - by BACS? In which case mikeyworks general remarks do not apply. Most employers will use a 'direct credit' scheme - and this appears as a 'bank credit' on statements. What staff 'see' is the money arriving in their accounts on 'pay day' (the date recorded on their payslips etc) but what has happened in reality is that payments have been calculated in advance and notified to the employer's bank - which then initiates a payment two working days ahead of the official pay date. In reality the money gets sent in advance. This system will not change for employers/employees as it achieves the same thing as Faster Payments (i.e. no delay in receiving expected payment) I don't know if the employer's account is 'debited' in advance of pay days however - that is between the bank and them - but they probably won't be since they are paying charges for most other things to run an account anyway.

If you are the single employee or something like that it may be that your employer has been paying you 'privately' via a BACS - until now - and they have just been able to telegraph the same payments via FP for the first time? (certainly HSBC to some A&L sort codes is possible now)

YorkshireBoy

Milarky wrote: »

...I don't know if the employer's account is 'debited' in advance of pay days however...

No, BACS Direct Credit is a simultaneous debit/credit system. From the BACS site...

Bacs processing cycle

Input - day 1
Input day is the latest day a business user/bureau may submit a payment file to Bacs for a processing cycle. Payment files must be transmitted to Bacs between 07.00 and 22.30.

Processing - day 2
Files are delivered to the recipient banks which then process each payment.

Entry - day 3
Payments are simultaneously credited to the recipients’ accounts and debited from your account.

http://www.bacs.co.uk/BACS/Businesses/Bacs+Direct+Credit/Paying+by/Getting+started/

JohalaReewi

newlywed wrote: »

In that case strange that my wages are showing up same day instead of the usual three days later

Small firm with only a few employees though if that makes any difference?

It could be that being a small company, the boss uses online banking to pay the wages. In this case, wages could suddenly start arriving two days earlier. I know a few 'small businesses' who pay in this way - they don't all use BACS or write cheques.

Viper_7

Mikeyorks wrote: »

But just how 'complex' is it when considering it was deliverable up to 3 years ago ..... postponed at the 11th hour in Nov 07 ..... and then is being 'phased' in a manner which means some of the key stakeholders aren't prepared to join for several more months! It's 'complex' because Bank systems are having to interface with each other ..... but when you consider it is based on existing ATM protocols .... it's really not such a big deal.

Had the Banks being losing money because of it's absence (or were being financially penalised by the Regulators, because of the obscene amounts of £float they've been making .. as should have been happening from 2005) ...... you can guarantee the timeframes would have been dramatically shortened ..... and without heightened risk.

First it was APACS who commissioned the changes.
The invited the likes of Mastercard / Visa VOCA ( do the BACS transfers) LINK Interchange ( the ATM Switch) to propose a solution.

Mastercard and VISA's solution was not real time.

LINK excel and drive the market in real time transaction processing. VOCA is a huge clearing house. Both merged and became VOCALINK to win the business.
The merged company has processing sites around the country.
So with a large company merger along with developing the FPS solution was a challenge in itself.
Existing comms infrastructure was used as LINK already had connections to all FI's
New hardware was brought in.
New message types.
Securing each and every single transaction real time end to end.
Forward thinking in that this is not just for Bank to Bank transfers, but will also be used for other payment types. It will become the platform for realtime secure transaction processing.
Lots of parties involved with regards to development/testing/implementing.
Banks themselves have to bring together their on-line /phone/mobile banking into the system.
As well as all that you have to think about fault tollerance/disaster recovery/training/settlement/reporting To name a few and that's along side all the other activites all companies are involved in as well as the current bread and butter activites thay have to deliver 100% of time time.

Mikeyorks

newlywed wrote: »

Small firm with only a few employees though if that makes any difference?

Quite likely (I did say 'generally' )

But even if it's a small firm there's normally a contract / understanding that wages are paid 'last Fri in the month / last day of the month' etc etc. So I'd find it odd they're voluntarily paying you 3 days ahead. Perhaps they were simply using 'bill payments' via the standard BACS system (as opposed to BACS Direct Credits .. which I was referring to) ...... and haven't realised the Bank is now treating them as FP?

So don't get too used to the 3 day bonus .. it may disappear once they realise!

newlywed

Mikeyorks wrote: »

But even if it's a small firm there's normally a contract / understanding that wages are paid 'last Fri in the month / last day of the month' etc etc. So I'd find it odd they're voluntarily paying you 3 days ahead. Perhaps they were simply using 'bill payments' via the standard BACS system (as opposed to BACS Direct Credits .. which I was referring to) ...... and haven't realised the Bank is now treating them as FP?

So don't get too used to the 3 day bonus .. it may disappear once they realise!

At our firm you get paid some time round the 25th. Depends what day the wages are "run". Sometimes they are "run" on 25th so then my money doesn't clear until 3 working days later (which is a pain when there are weekends and bank holidays in the middle as I never know for sure what day my wages are going to be there).

So with the 3 day thing I'm just happy that I won't have to sit and work out how many weekends/bank holidays between the 25th and the time my wages will clear

nash0819

I hope I have picked the right thread to put this on.

I am having a very frustrating time trying to get my money moved by BACS payment out of my NatWest current account, where it is earning bog all interest, into my nice, new fixed rate, instant access Kaupthing Edge savings account.

First off, they wouldn't let me set up a BACS transfer in branch; they said I had to do it via telephone banking. Why this is, I have no idea. I was offered a CHAPS payment in branch but that is chargeable so I said no thanks.

After much woe re-registering with the internet/telephone banking system, I finally logged in OK today. Via phone, I got them to setup Kaupthing Edge as a payee and arrange three payments for me over the next three days. Sounded good.

However they called me back to say that my KE account number was not being recognised. Furthermore, NatWest can only set up a BACS transfer to another bank that is also operating the new Fast Payment system!

I told them, surely you must be wrong but the operator was most firm that NatWest will now only do BACS payments via Fast Payment and they will not do BACS to banks that are not yet on the scheme, like Kaupthing Edge. She said maybe I could do a cheque or a standing order... or a CHAPS transfer in branch, which is where we came in! :rolleyes:

This is wrong, surely - NatWest are stopping me transfering my money to my bank of choice via BACS?

My application to First Direct was already written before this; it is now the post. I'm fed up with NatWest.

[edit] I just rang KE and they said they had had problems with NatWest refusing to do transfers before. They have written to complain to Nat West's head office but nothing has come of it.

runciblespoon

ICBW, but I think Kaupthing's clearing bank is NatWest. So they can't send payments to themselves! There were early problems with KE because the sort code was newly issued - perhaps that's the problem and the clerks don't understand the messages they're getting?

You could, I suppose, set up a standing order actioned tomorrow and then cancel it once it's gone out. I don't know if that'd work but it's worth a try. SOs haven't gone onto the Faster Payments system yet so it should go through OK if NatWest accept the sort code.

In general, are banks imposing a £10K daily limit on FP? In other words, if I have £40K to transfer can I do four transfers on Monday, or must I do £10K transfers on each of Mon/Tue/Wed/Thu?

moonrakerz

FPS appears to be closing fast on Terminal 5 as the most hyped flop of the year !