AST - ultimatum - sign up or leave

Notlob

prudryden wrote: »

A contractual periodic to me means it has a starting and an ending date, but either party can issue notice (LL -2mo, T-1/2mo) at any time during the period. The tenant is not held liable to the ending date.

I sort of do this as a memorandum to the original AST which we both sign and agree that all points in the original AST are still valid except that the tenants are now free to leave with 2mo notice at any time. The memorandum is good for a year at which time we can do another one. It also allows for rent increase should we agree.

Sounds to me that that this is just a renewal document and not a contractual periodic, as there is an expiry date. If correct, then be careful who you use to protect the deposit, because if you use the TDSL, they will require another insurance premium to protect the deposit and I believe re-issue prescribed info.

scrummy_mummy_2

OK......found this which might help on a site called simplyrent.co.uk. Don';t know how valid this is but, as it's Saturday, the NLA and PainSmith Solicitors are closed (Franklee knows who I mean!) so I can't verify with trusted sources.

3.2 What is a Periodic Tenancy?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A Periodic Tenancy is a tenancy that is automatically renewed each "period" (normally each month) until either the Tenant or the Landlord does something to end it.[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Periodic tenancies are usually one of the following: [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Statutory Periodic Tenancies [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]These tenancies usually come about when the fixed terms of Assured and Assured Shorthold tenancies come to an end but the Tenant stays on ("holds over") with the Landlord's consent. The terms of the tenancy remain the same. In the case of a periodic tenancy following on from an Assured Shorthold Tenancy the Landlord and the Tenant both have the additional right to end the tenancy by giving the required amount of notice[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Contractual Periodic Tenancies[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]These tenancies usually come about when an Assured or Assured Shorthold tenancy is created with no initial fixed term. The tenancy runs on indefinitely until either the Landlord or the Tenant gives the required notice to the other (the Landlord can only end the tenancy in the first 6 months if he has grounds to do so.) [/FONT]

Thus.......the OP's tenancy most definately would continue as a STATUTORY PERIODIC agreement, as it follows on from the intitial main fixed term agreement. NO NEW AGREEMENT is created and thus no fees are incurred. The deposit thus does not need to be unprotected and then reprotected.
The S21 has been served appropriately and can be enforced/not enforced as necessary.

franklee

Thanks for that scrummy mummy.

In this case the OP is to pay a fee of 25 pounds presumably for admin of some sort, perhaps a new contract was the point made IIRC.

I think the point is that the OP's landlord/agent and OP would be free to do either of three options. That is they could if they wished create a new contract that would be a contractual periodic tenancy. Likewise they could create a new fixed term. Either of these options would definitely render the current S21 redundant.

Or they could just go for statuary periodic. Then the questions remain:

1. If the landlord (or agent acting on the landlord's behalf) AGREES to the OP remaining on a periodic tenancy without creating a new contract then is an already served S21 still valid? I think not. Others think yes.

2. Was the S21 served on the OP valid in the first place?

The OP said the S21 and form with option to renew were sent together:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=11804815&postcount=5

I do indeed know who you mean by Painsmith, my view is based partly on what I found Marveen Smith had written from a google search. Which I copied to here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=6197617&postcount=176

8.If the landlord agrees to the tenant extending the tenancy for say a
week or ten days after the section 21 Notice expires then the Notice
will be void and would have to be served again. Never agree an extension
for a short period of time without the consent of the landlord, and
warning him his Notice would be void.

9.If the landlord or agent writes offering to extend the tenancy any
Section 21 Notice served prior to the letter or at the same time as the
letter will be technically void, as there is a conflict between the two
actions.

But as the direct link to this is now taken down from their website and as it comes up so very often it would be nice to nail in in a way that's beyond doubt. Till then the debate will rumble on.

If the OP has remained on a periodic tenancy with a valid S21 they need to be aware their notice is up. (Sword of Damocles).

Debt_Free_Chick

Given that you hate moving, do you really want to stay on a statutory periodic tenancy knowing that you could be given 2 months notice to quit at any time?

I don't see that you have a particularly strong bargaining position as they've issued you with notice to quit, presumably on 8 August. As I see it, the ball is in your court now - as things stand, you have to leave on 8 Aug (OK - you don't, but if you don't, you'll be facing eviction by bailiffs if the LL goes to Court for repossession).

Now this might be a case of bluff & double-bluff but the LL/LA doesn't have to offer you anything at all. You have a notice to quit .......