Changes to /user agreement for Paypal Service

ikkle87

Hey guys I just had this email from paypal;

[FONT=Arial,verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif] Dear xxxxxxx, [/FONT]
We would like to let you know of an important announcement affecting all PayPal account holders in the UK. Effective from 9 July 2008, PayPal will change its fee structure to make it more attractive for our UK customers to send personal payments. We are pleased to announce that:

• PayPal will not charge a recipient (regardless of their account type) of a PayPal payment if that payment was funded by the sender's bank account or PayPal balance and it is designated a Personal Payment
• PayPal will apply a fee for payments received for Personal Payments or Commercial Payments if such a payment is funded by a credit or debit card, however for Personal Payments funded by a card, the sender will have the option of paying the fees for that payment
• Also, PayPal will no longer require its customers to upgrade from a Personal Account to a Premier or Business Account once it has received a total of £250
  
  Consequently the following amendments to the PayPal User Agreement will be applicable for UK customers:

Clause 8 will be amended (where relevant) to provide that:

• Receiving Personal Payments which are also Balance/Bank Funded Payments will be free
• Receiving Personal Payments and/or Commercial Payments which are also Card Funded Payments will be charged at these standard rates:
  
  3.4% + Fixed Fee For each domestic payment transaction. 3.9% + Fixed Fee For each cross border payment transaction
  Merchant Rates
  
  (based on monthly transaction volume & one-off application) 1.4% - 2.9% + Fixed Fee For each domestic payment transaction 1.9% - 3.9% + Fixed Fee For each cross border payment transaction
  The monthly volume tiers applicable to these Merchant rates are further described in the Fees section accessible from every page of the PayPal Website.

The Fixed Fee will be (depending on the payment currency):
£0.20 GBP ¥40.0 JPY 1.35 PLN €0.35 EUR $0.40 AUD 90.0 HUF $0.30 USD 0.55 CHF 10.00 CZK $0.30 CAD 2.80 NOK $0.50 SGD $4.00 MXN 3.25 SEK $2.35 HKD 1.20 ILS 2.60 DKK $0.45 NZD UK registered Users who receive payments in Euros from other European User countries will receive a 0.5% reduction in the variable amount of the applicable cross border fee.

• The sender of a Personal Payment which is also a Card Funded Payment may choose to pay the Fee applicable to that payment.

Clause 15 will include the following new definitions:

"Commercial Payment" means a payment which is not a Personal Payment (including, without limitation a payment associated with an eBay item and/or other goods or services).

"Personal Payment" means a payment made for the purpose of either your personal, family and/or household affairs.

Clauses 4.1, 4.2, 4.4(c), 4.9 will no longer apply to UK customers.


No action is required on your part and you will be able to continue using PayPal with no changes.

Yours sincerely,

PayPal

Sounds good but I doubt many people will want to pay the other persons paypal fees.

What do you think?

soolin

This is actually a lot of hot air..it sort of looks good when you first read it but when you work out what it means you realise it makes no difference on ebay, it only affects people using paypal for non ebay sites.

All the benefits about not paying fees to receive payments relate to 'private' payments, so ebay payments do not qualify. That bit just means that if you want to pay a friend or an organisation an amount personally and can pay via an existing balance or bank transfer (which will probably go as an echeque) then the recipient won't be charged.

The bit about the upgrade from basic to premier also doesn't affect ebay sellers as you need a premier or business account to enable you to receive card payments, so there is no way a seller can manage for more than two payments trying to use a personal account.

Paypal are obviously trying to protect their business for non ebay sales and we can only speculate whether this is due to the recent changes on ebay or not. It would be nice to think that they are concerned at people closing their accounts and leaving paypal and ebay..and thus encouraging fee breaks for personal payments used elsewhere, but we can only guess.

I suppose now we will have to contend with newer sellers suggesting 'clever' ways of using this to their advantage on ebay..how long before someone suggests a weird and wonderful way of stating on the auction that buyers need to wait for an invoice from paypal before paying and then trying to persuade buyers that the payment needs to be unlinked from ebay and marked personal. BTW just in case anyone does think that was a real suggestion..please think it through and you'll see why it just won't work more than say once.

steviebabes

If you go on the paypal site and look up the update there is more -

1. Use of PayPal on eBayClause 4.4 of the User Agreement will be amended to provide the following:
   Sellers who offer PayPal as a payment method in their eBay listings must follow these requirements:
   1. Accept PayPal if the eBay listing includes PayPal as a payment method.
   2. Accept PayPal payments via all PayPal funding sources from a buyer, including but not limited to eCheque and credit cards.
   3. Have a Premier or Business account or be willing to upgrade to a Premier or Business account upon receipt of a payment. This sub-section does not apply to you if you are a registered UK user.
   4. Accept cross border PayPal transactions which are permitted by PayPal and are also different to those where you are a registered user if the eBay listing offers postage outside the place where you are registered.
   5. Sellers may not charge a surcharge for accepting PayPal as a payment method.
2. Risk of Reversals, Chargebacks and ClaimsThe definition of “Reversal” in clause 15 has been amended to clarify that a reversal can be made PayPal if PayPal’s risk modeling has categorized the payment as a risky payment required to be reversed to mitigate the risk associated with the payment transaction taking place.
3. Account closure and Limited AccessClause 10.3 of the User Agreement is amended such that if we close a customer’s PayPal account under the terms of this provision, PayPal will also have the right to terminate the Agreement with the customer.
4. Buyer Protection ProgramClause 13.1 of the User Agreement is amended so that the Buyer Protection Programs do not cover airline tickers, nor classified advertisements on eBay. Also, clause 13.12 is amended to clarify that the Buyer Protection Programs do not cover “customised” or “made to order” items. AND

Beginning 9 July 2008 the PayPal Privacy Policy is being amended as follows:

1. Disclosure to other PayPal customersThe Privacy Policy is being amended such that PayPal will disclose to a buyer, a seller’s address so that goods can be returned to a seller to facilitate the PayPal dispute resolution programs.

So all sellers will have their address shown on paypal transactions.

antoniomontana

ebay and paypal are still the biggest daylight robbers out there, as a previous poster has said this announcement is hardly ground breaking as non ebay payment can be done via bank transfer for free anyway
I think people have started to look away from ebay and towards things like gumtree/loot etc to sell stuff

soolin

Just remember though that Gumtree is part of the ebay family!

Retired_Minky

How do they know a payment is private ?

Luke_Warmwater

"...permitted by PayPal and are also different to those where you are a registered user.." :rolleyes:

Such lax use of English - I wonder how many real loop-holes a good lawyer could find in their t&Cs...

Still, not surprising really - even their mouthpieces on the ebay community boards can't understand, or even keep up with, the new rules. ebpal/paybay are too busy running around trying to patch all of the holes that this recent flurry of changes has generated.

I also have a micro-payments PP account which has a different fee structure - they still sent the same email with the standard fees mentioned.

r'se/elbow confusion abounds methinks.

soolin

binning wrote: »

How do they know a payment is private ?

If you send a paypal payment to a friend for instance it asks you what the payment is for, you can then choose, ebay item, services, other goods etc. I assume that either they will add another option for 'private' payment or that they will accept anything added as 'other' as being private.

Obviously when using ebay the paypal invoice button automatically shows the ebay details.

appleblossom

Soolin, this has been mentioned on a parenting site that I go on which has a buy and sell forum. Many of the items sold are for very small amounts (couple of pound here inc del sort of thing) and atm most ppl are paying fees on top if paying that way as it's not worth it otherwise. If we opted to choose the family/friends option on paypal instead of goods as we currently do so the fees didn't have to be paid, would you lose buyer protection by doing that do you know?

steviebabes

I doubt if there will be any buyer protection for private transactions. The resolution process as to be paid for somehow.

soolin

I would imagine you would lose buyer protection if opting for personal payments, although frankly I am never certain about anything with paypal! I assume protection would be lost purely because no goods would be deemed to be exchanged, or that's how I understand the requirement. The moment goods are mentioned the payment stops being private and should be dealt with as a straight payment.