Seller won't refund deposit

BlueMeany

Won an auction for a car at end of April. The seller said that if I paid £60 MoT cost it would pass and anything that needed doing (he was sure nothing would) he would pay for - I have this in writing.

Since then, after paying £225 deposit the day after the auction, I've had nothing but trouble.

Car failed it's MoT he said... all sorts of excuses... then failed again??!! when it went back... stalling exercises etc. It was obvious to me then that he had no intention of selling me the car.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, he offered me my deposit back, an to cancel the sale, and that was that. I said "OK" and he said he would pay it into my account a couple of days later.

I didn't complain that he wasn't paying it in the next day - gave him benefit of the doubt with regards being not able to get to bank etc. Anyway, the day (tue 20th may) comes and he pays in (or his missus does) £125, leaving me £100 short.

I phone's him up, and he said he would speak with his missus and get it paid in the next day. Fairynuff I said - mistakes do happen. Next day, no money in and not able to contact him. Left him a voicemail asking him to sort it as I needed the £100 to get another car, which I was going to collect the following day.

I phoned him the following morning - 9.15am - and he said he was "on his way" to pay the money in. By 1pm it still wasn't in my account, so I sent him a text message (I was out and about by then) saying that would he please sort it asap or I'd have to involve Police & Local Authority as a last resort.

That certainly stirred him into action because he phoned me saying "why was I threatening him?" and "not to send messages like that". He also said rather abruptly that I would have my money by following am (that being Friday 23rd May).

Well, guess what - the money wasn't there again, nor was it there Saturday... and its still not there!!

Was I being unreasonable to mention that I would have to involve the Police??! I don't think I was - being as the guy has had my deposit money for nearly 4 weeks now (and over a week since he cancelled the sale).

What you reckon I should do now? I really don't want to involve Police and LA (would be interesting if he aint paying Business Rates from home), but I really see no other alternative - especially as ebay will no doubt be totally useless.

I have filed a Dispute with ebay which went unanswered - even though he had traded whilst the dispute was open, so had been logged into ebay. It has now been reported to Trust & Safety.

Was I unreasonable to say that I 'may' have to contact the Police 'as a last resort'? Because he won't answer me what else can I do??!

I feel I've been reasonable throughout.

Since then, I've had no replies - we are talking now over 3 weeks since he paid in the incorrect amount. I have contacted Consumer Direct who say Police won't get involved, it is a Small Claims Court matter.

If the seller is registered as Business Seller (how do I find out) can I involve Trading Standards? The problem I foresee is that the ebay account is registered in his partners name.

If I go Small Courts route, does anyone know which form I should be filling in from the Courts site? Also, would I put her name down as officially the transaction was done in her name? Anyone any suggestions as to how/what I should word it. I will probably try writing to him at home first - with a copy of the form.

Help!!!

Edit : Incidentally, don't do the ebay forum thing and say "more fool you for buying a car on ebay that you didn't see". I did view the car, gave it a good going over (but I'm not an MOT mechanic!)

Kay_Peel

I don't think it was a good idea to say that you would involve the police and local authority.

From what I've read, the seller has not committed a criminal offence. The fact that he has not repaid your deposit back is not criminal. The police would tell you to recover the debt through a small claims court.

I find it very strange that you agreed to this bizarre arrangement.

This is a debt, pure and simple, and it might have been a good idea to remain on good terms with the seller until you had the money back. No-one likes being threatened. Unfortunately for you, your threats are just empty ones - the police won't get involved and there is not enough information for the local authority to act on.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news. Good luck.

Premier_2

BlueMeany wrote: »

...
If I go Small Courts route, does anyone know which form I should be filling in from the Courts site? Also, would I put her name down as officially the transaction was done in her name? Anyone any suggestions as to how/what I should word it. I will probably try writing to him at home first - with a copy of the form...

If you wish to file a County Court/Small Claims Summons why not use the online site?

http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

It's straightforward and will provide you automatically with the correct (online) form to complete. It'll also save you £5.00 off the filing fee, plus, of course, no postage

In regards who to name as the defendant, then that'll be who you believe owes you the money.

If not already actioned, writing a letter first defining a debt is advisable, as would a follow up letter giving notice of impending legal action should the debt not be settled. However, sending a communication that could imply it was issued by a law court (e.g. a non-official copy of the summons) could be construed as unlawful harassment under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act, as could possibly be the threats you've already made.

Perhaps you ought to seek some legal advice on how best to proceed before you find the police possibly knocking on your door

When filling in the application for a small claims summons, word it as you prefer keeping to the facts. The small claims court process is designed to be completed by the general public without legal help and judges are fully aware of this. Accordingly a judge will assess the case on its own merits; it is nothing like a criminal or high court where a case may be dismissed because of some obscure legal error in presenting the case.

BlueMeany

Virtually throughout, it has been me having to phone him - to find out where we were going. My dealings were polite and courteous throughout.

My message when I was supposed to have threatened him was "....at 9.15am you said you were going the bank. It now appears you are ignoring me" (he wouldn't answer any of my calls that morning) "You said you were a man of your word. I don't want to involve the police or local authority as thats last resort. Please sort it urgently thanks."
I am on Income Support and that is why I don't want to claim online, because I believe there is reduced/no costs involved when claiming if in receipt of benefits.
Seems ridiculous to take it to court for £100, but that is a lot of money for someone in my position (single parent)

withabix

Did you use Paypal to pay the deposit?

If you did, file a Goods Not Received dispute.

Premier_2

BlueMeany wrote: »

...I am on Income Support and that is why I don't want to claim online, because I believe there is reduced/no costs involved when claiming if in receipt of benefits...

Are you thinking about legal aid?

Legal aid is not applicable as it pays for things such as the cost of employing a solicitor, legal representation, etc. The cost of a solicitor is generally not an allowed cost in a county court claim as they are simply not required.

The costs involved in obtaining judgement for £100 debt using the online process is:
£25.00 filing fee
£25.00 court hearing fee (if the defendant doesn't pay up in the meantime)

Whilst you have to pay these fees upfront, these costs are added to the amount claimed and so if successful, you'll get these back too. If you don't think you'll be successful - forget about the £100 debt you allege

Edit:
It does seem you are able to claim court fee remission in certain circumstances
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex160a_e.pdf
and that if you wish to do this, then you cannot use the online service.

It's probably best to go to your local county court for the nesessary forms. The county court staff are very used to helping the general public and will guide you in how to create a county court claim (e.g. which forms to fill in & when), but they won't offer any legal advice such as how to word your claim or whether it has any chance of success.

kevinyork

Kay_Peel wrote: »

From what I've read, the seller has not committed a criminal offence. The fact that he has not repaid your deposit back is not criminal. The police would tell you to recover the debt through a small claims court..

The offence is Theft. Its a criminal act which the Police should deal with. Yes they may say that it is a Civil Matter, which it can be but it is also a criminal matter. Here someone has taken money from you for something they promised in return but has not provided the promised item. It could also be viewed as obtaining money by deception. If you dont think you are being taken seriously then ask to speak to the Senior Officer on Duty.

As for Moneyclaimonline. I would agree with Premier. It is a pretty straightforward process and if you are on income support many of the costs of issuing documents etc are free. Take a look at the link supplied by Premier above, they have an excellent range of booklets online including outlining assistance for those on benefits.

Before issuing a County Court Claim I'd recommend one last letter briefly outlining the issue and providing proof of payment. (If you paid by cheque then your bank can provide the sort code and account number the money was paid into). Give them 14 days to pay you back and advise that after this date you will be issuing a County Court Summons to recover your money, plus you can add a small amount for your costs to date- say £30 for letters and emails. Make sure you keep copies of absolutely everything....including the eBay advert which wont be available to view after a while.

Good luck

Timmne

Offer to ring the tax man up and tell them of his car dealership business

I'm sure they'd be surprised to hear he has a business!

kevinyork

Timmne wrote: »

Offer to ring the tax man up and tell them of his car dealership business

I'm sure they'd be surprised to hear he has a business!

May feel satisfying but it wont get the OP their moneyback and they would not be made aware of the result of the information passed on. Also, if they end up owing money to HMRC then the OP could forget receiving settlement of a County Court judgement if HMRC pursue them vigourously as the Goverment's debts always get setttled first.

Timmne

Not nowadays IIRC - not long ago, HMRC lost their preferencial creditor status, meaning they have to fight for their piece of the pie like everyone else!

Kay_Peel

kevinyork wrote: »

The offence is Theft. Its a criminal act which the Police should deal with. Yes they may say that it is a Civil Matter, which it can be but it is also a criminal matter. Here someone has taken money from you for something they promised in return but has not provided the promised item. It could also be viewed as obtaining money by deception. If you dont think you are being taken seriously then ask to speak to the Senior Officer on Duty.

No it isn't a matter for the police, believe me. It isn't theft either. The police would have to prosecute a lot of MoneySavers if it were the case.

You have to remember that the OP gave the seller the money to repair the vehicle and put it through its MOT. The seller used the money to effect repairs and MOT it. There's no dishonesty there. The OP wasn't tricked. As I said above, it was a bizarre arrangement that the OP was unwise to agree to. But the OP did agree.

Did the OP ask the question: 'And what happens if the vehicle does not pass the MOT?'