HBOS shares

esbo

dunstonh wrote: »

No-one says that option had to be taken. Some may find it useful whilst trades are being settled. Others not. However, the choice to use it or not remains with the individual.

That's no the point, they are giving people a credit facility they never requested, making it easier for them to stake more than they normally would. You appear to condone the practice.

dunstonh wrote: »

Yes. An experienced investor knows the risks and looks at reward potential. It doesnt mean they wont make losses but they will know what they are investing in and if they can handle it or not.

There were and still many experience investors who held shares in the same stocks
as the OP, and no doubt those banks employed many highly skilled financial advisors when taking their lending decisions.

dunstonh wrote: »

Most people's pensions have not disappeared. A very small vocal minority have had issues with certain defined benefit schemes but they are not investment linked like personal pensions, stakeholders, SIPPs and other money purchase schemes which account for the majority of pensions out there.

There are plenty of people with investment linked pensions which are not going to deliver the returns promised.

dunstonh wrote: »

What has being an IFA got to do with stockbrokering and DIY buying of shares?

Well you are basicaly suggesting he should have paid for financial advice and suggesting he would have been better off if he did which is not necessarily the case.
I know someone who had a stock broker and ended up losing a lot of money with Barings bank. If someone really could predict the future of financial markets, well they really would not need to work for a living would they?

dunstonh wrote: »

I suggest before you make such daft accusations, you lurk a bit longer before deciding what biases may or may not exist. You may also want to check your facts at the same time as you seem to have a distorted view of reality.

[/quote]

Well perhaps you will admit that indepemdant finiancail advisors are not as independant as they sound then? And you did suggest he took advice, who did you have in mind? An advisor at his bank or an independant one?

A stockbroker could easilly have lost the same proportion of £320,000 over the
same period, it is only a 28% loss. Had he started trading at a different time he could
easilly have made the same amount or more. Unfortunately his bank encouraged him
trade with more more money than was wise which is easilly done when you are trying to recover losses and has happened to people with much more financial experience then him. No doubt they pulled the plugs on his credit limit when they stood to lose some of *their* money.

"The bank didnt do anything you didnt ask them to do." Yes they did they gave him
a credit limit he never asked for to make it easy for him to over extend himself, it is a no lose situation for them, I really don't know why you are defending them.

Aegis

esbo wrote: »

That's no the point, they are giving people a credit facility they never requested, making it easier for them to stake more than they normally would. You appear to condone the practice.

People managing their own stock portfolio often need to take advantage of price shifts much faster than the clearing cycle for funds, so they often get what is effectively an overdraft facility offered by their broker. It can also allow gearing and leveraging, two tactics that are commonly used by traders.

All in all, if someone's used money that they didn't have to purchase shares, it's not really the bank's fault. They may have provided the facility, but they gave no advice whatsoever about what to use it for, and probably included all sorts of performance warnings at every stage of the application to warn of the dangers of share purchase and the tactics I mentioned above.

There were and still many experience investors who held shares in the same stocks
as the OP, and no doubt those banks employed many highly skilled financial advisors when taking their lending decisions.

Financial advisers rarely get involved in lending decisions. You're thinking of underwriters.

And yes, a lot of experienced investors probably held the stock, but if they were experienced enough they would have had stop loss orders in place or enough diversification that this small part of their portfolio going under wouldn't be the end of the world.

If people put all their money in to a single stock, there's a huge risk of exactly this happening.

There are plenty of people with investment linked pensions which are not going to deliver the returns promised.

Which investment linked pensions guaranteed a return? It's the final salary pensions which are guaranteed, money-purchase schemes (i.e. investment pensions) aren't.

Well you are basicaly suggesting he should have paid for financial advice and suggesting he would have been better off if he did which is not necessarily the case.
I know someone who had a stock broker and ended up losing a lot of money with Barings bank. If someone really could predict the future of financial markets, well they really would not need to work for a living would they?

Stock brokers aren't financial advisers, and yes, the person who lost money would almost certainly have been better with the benefit of some independent financial advice. If he'd diversified his portfolio using unit trusts and OEICs rather than self-selecting a single stock, he might only have dropped by a few pence from this stock drop rather than over 60%.

Well perhaps you will admit that indepemdant finiancail advisors are not as independant as they sound then? And you did suggest he took advice, who did you have in mind? An advisor at his bank or an independant one?

I don't know there you've got your conclusion about IFAs from. The "independent" tag means that they source their recommendations from the whole of the UK market for the products that financial advisers deal with, so they're as independent as you can get.

Taking advice from a bank adviser would probably have resulted in a better result than going it alone in this case, but bank advisers are generally expensive and don't have access to a decent range of products to recommend.


I think you're railing against IFAs without really understanding their role in the financial services sector.

purch

I think you're railing against IFAs without really understanding their role in the financial services sector

Who cares !!! :eek:

Blame them anyway !!!! :rotfl: :rotfl:

Someone has to be to blame............and it can never ever be the idiot who borrowed the money they never asked for, or placed the trades about which they had not the faintest idea what they were doing !!!!

noddy321

purch wrote: »

Who cares !!! :eek:

Blame them anyway !!!! :rotfl: :rotfl:

Someone has to be to blame............and it can never ever be the idiot who borrowed the money they never asked for, or placed the trades about which they had not the faintest idea what they were doing !!!!

I Know that I have now been called a clueless idiot but I will just explain my situation. Firstly I am female (I expect you will all have another laugh about that) and 2 years ago my partner walked out on me and my 2 and 4 year old children so I had no option but to sell my house. I have been buying and selling shares for around 15 years so not a complete novice without the faintest idea what I was doing but I always purchased no more than £1000 in any one company. I did always research the company I invested in and thougth that I could not go wrong with FTSE 100 companies. The reason I invested in shares was to give myself an income so that I could be a full-time mum to my children and not have to live off handouts from the state. I did not want my children to be stuck in a nursery fulltime, why have children if thats what you are going to do? I worked in the evenings part-time doing book-keeping. I still admit I was foolish but I do think banks also have to take some of the blame by putting offering money that I did not ask for.
To all you smug people out there who have no sympathy I have certainly suffered enough over the last year, the only thing that keeps me going is my 2 beautiful children. I will be homeless in a few weeks time because I have been made redundant and cannot afford to stay where I am at the moment but you can all keep having a dig if it makes you feel better.
A big thank you to esbo, your post made me feel better. X

thumshie

I do sympathise with your situation, and it's not something I would wish on anyone....

noddy321 wrote: »

but I always purchased no more than £1000 in any one company.

Was this previously because thats all you could afford?? Otherwise it appears you broke your own investment criteria - diversify - because you had the funds available?

I do however agree that the 'overdraft' facility offered by brokers(Aegis term not mine) should be credit-checked. I could NEVER obtain an un-secured loan of 320K..how many people on this thread can get an un-secured loan of this amount!!!

noddy321

thumshie wrote: »

I do sympathise with your situation, and it's not something I would wish on anyone....



Was this previously because thats all you could afford?? Otherwise it appears you broke your own investment criteria - diversify - because you had the funds available?

I do however agree that the 'overdraft' facility offered by brokers(Aegis term not mine) should be credit-checked. I could NEVER obtain an un-secured loan of 320K..how many people on this thread can get an un-secured loan of this amount!!!

Thank you for your post. Yes I only invested £1,000 previously because that seemed enough money to put into one company.
When I opened the online trading account they kept upping my trading level and it was tempting to buy more shares and then when they starting dropping it all went horribly wrong. I never asked for for this money and I wish it had not been availble but we are always wiser afterwards.
What about all the people who were given mortgages 6+ times their wages, and who are now struggling are these people idiots also??. I think banks have been very negligent and irresponsible by giving credit to people who cannot afford it.

purch

What about all the people who were given mortgages 6+ times their wages, and who are now struggling are these people idiots also??.

Yes....

I don't buy into the blame culture...

It's not the Supermarket at fault for drunken yobbish behaviour....it's the yob who buys the cheap alcohol and drinks too much of it

If you borrow more than you can afford to pay back don't blame the lender for your financial woes !!!!

It's time for people to start taking personal responsibility again, rather than blaming everyone else for their problems.

noddy321

purch wrote: »

Yes....

I don't buy into the blame culture...

It's not the Supermarket at fault for drunken yobbish behaviour....it's the yob who buys the cheap alcohol and drinks too much of it

If you borrow more than you can afford to pay back don't blame the lender for your financial woes !!!!

It's time for people to start taking personal responsibility again, rather than blaming everyone else for their problems.

I disagree, I believe the supermarket has to take some responsibility for selling alcohol to people under 21 and pushing cheap alcohol. Also parents have to take their share of the blame for letting their children roam the streets at night and not giving a t*** what they are up to and the government for being to soft on yobs.

noddy321

purch wrote: »

Yes....

I don't buy into the blame culture...

It's not the Supermarket at fault for drunken yobbish behaviour....it's the yob who buys the cheap alcohol and drinks too much of it

If you borrow more than you can afford to pay back don't blame the lender for your financial woes !!!!

It's time for people to start taking personal responsibility again, rather than blaming everyone else for their problems.

You sound like a very hard hearted person. There are thousands of people who have taken out mortgages and are struggling, again they probably thought that if the bank had seen their payslips and financial details and were still willing to loan them 6+ times their wages they must of thought the loan was affordable. One year ago we didn't know that we would have sky high oil, food and utility bills on top of everything else the government manages to sqeeze out of us.

noddy321

purch wrote: »

Yes....

I don't buy into the blame culture...

It's not the Supermarket at fault for drunken yobbish behaviour....it's the yob who buys the cheap alcohol and drinks too much of it

If you borrow more than you can afford to pay back don't blame the lender for your financial woes !!!!

It's time for people to start taking personal responsibility again, rather than blaming everyone else for their problems.

I believe that I have always been responsible, I have never taken out a loan or got myself into debt, I have always paid my bills on time, I don't own a credit card just 2 debit cards and 2 store cards which I rarely use but when I do I always pay the bill in full when I receive it. When I took out my 1st mortgate I paid a 15% deposit and only borrwed what I could afford.