Grans home needs fixing - help me avoid getting ripped off

jason_s_2

I agree, i belong to a few organisations ie, buy with confidence, checkatrade, constuction line and my prices are in the middle of what the going rate is. Im all for people saving money, but it pee's me off when other people try to take the p***.

sho_me_da_money

Idiophreak wrote: »

I don't think it's as easy as "honest" or "dishonest" tbh.

An eastern european chav turning up on your doorstep isn't going to have the same costs a "reputable" firm has...they won't have the address you can write to, the freephone number etc. They won't be a lot of help if the wall they're building falls down a year down the line. There's an argument that a single bloke set up in business should charge a bit less than one of the bigger companies..but I think that's usually the case anyway.

So I guess, really, it's the larger companies push the price up...but can you blame people for working for them - they get a regular income, the stability to raise their family, paid holiday etc - all things that most workers take for granted and things that a european fella working on the cheap aren't gonna be too worried about. These aren't conmen, just regular people trying to make a living (admittedly, a lot of them doing a fairly good living, too )

Bit harsh as it sounds like your assuming that the Europeans who charge the lower rate are unqualified chavs. That could be true but it's up to you to decide that based on what qualifications they have, how long they been doing it for etc etc - there are many factors to take into account before making a decision.

Sure it's easy to take someone who is UK and works for a reputable firm because it saves you the hassle of researching the kep facts about who the person is - but seriously how long will that take - 1 hour, 2, ok even a day? Id do that - after all it's saving me over £1K.

Find the right person, do the research, make the decision and your work will/should last as long as what a british chav would do who has a number, email and address.

Again to make an analogy, im good at what i do but does that mean someone who does it cheaper than me who comes from Germany/Russia is going to a crappier job than me? NO - the best hackers in the world come from them ends (don't know why i said that but you can work it out)

Just comes down to a little research really. Kinda like an interview process.

Now people working for firms - fair enough - they cant make up their prices, they simply work for their employer. So no problems. But the people who peeve me off are the labourers who are private working for themselves aka tosspot above.

There's something about people wanting to buy british! - we gotta wake up and smell the coffee. Those british companies/tradesmen are selling foerign products/services at double/triple the rate.

MrsE_2

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

I think you're one of those people who take the mick out of people like me.

Plastering one room for £150??? I think you !!!! is on you're face, because your talking a load of poo? The plasterer who quoted me the same rip off price you mentioned, told me it would take max 3 hours - get stuffed!

I paid £150 for one wall in my living room (& its the smallest).

sho_me_da_money

MrsE wrote: »

I paid £150 for one wall in my living room (& its the smallest).

Sorry to hear that.

Im sure you're impressed and happy with it though.

bookduck

show_me_da_money, I work in a larger environment than you, we have about 500+ servers and about 6000 users.

I find it hard to get off work and by the time i've worked somethings out, a pro would have done it 3 times over. I have no family to rely on, or that can help me.

I've been to evening class and done "Creative Arts in Burnt Clay" course (bricklaying, plastering and tiling). It took me 20 weeks to complete, one evening a week. The thing about the course that I was looking forward to, I hated from the beginning - bricklaying. Plastering I was ok at, and tilling I was quite good at. I've never seen jason_s work, but I'm definitely not up to his standard . Although I will probably never lay another brick etc. in my life, I can now tell a bad job from a good one and it is amazing when you walk past and see a large percentage of crud garden walls that their owners paid good money for

The point really is you have the time to do this work. Soon as you go into house letting that old idiom "time is money" is true, you want it to be done (a) fast - longer it takes more it cost you and more you loose too (b) no mistakes (c) someone who is knowledgeable not to get stuck and call you every 5 mins to get advice, or sit around waiting for divine intervention (d) will actually show up (e) will put a days work in and not vanish for days on end. Jason_s could probably add a few more reason to the 5 i've given.

Some small jobs may cost similar to a large one. By the time the person unpacks his tools, prepares stuff, mixes/or cuts it takes only slightly longer to do a bigger area, as I'm sure you realized with your ceiling(s) that it would have been quite easy to fit in a extra panel, if the room was bigger, once you had started. Although a person charges £10 an hour, get ready to pay for a days labour - fact of building (not IT) life.

Also the above course I was on, once did Plumbing, but this was shut down. Allegedly one of the trainees there did the course, got the multi-skills certificate (it's not even c&g standard) and sold himself as a bathroom fitter. he attempted to install a bathroom, got stuck half way through and vanished from the site, leaving the people with an unusable bathroom for weeks/months. The case went to court and the house owner said that the bathroom fitter showed him the cert from the college.

To be fair I've been trawling this DIY money saving site for quite a while and jason_s and quite a few others (if not the majority) have always been very generous in giving their time and sharing their knowledge. Hope you are not too offended when they try and help you out It can be hard to swallow going to college, getting certs, working evenings + weekends for no extra £££, then a painter that works from 8am to 4:30 gets over double your salary. We had a painter at work (contractor) he was getting £200 a day. This was this regular pay for all the work he did wherever he worked. - when I told my colleagues the vast majority were miffed, but non of us became painters;)

For you Sir, if you are a young-ish guy, you should go contracting. Down here in London the starting rate for pc support is £12 and goes up to £20, and for server it is around £17-£25 (this is what the persons get and not what your agent charges). A person on our helpdesk gets £12p/h, but he was offered a perm job for £17000. For more technical stuff like ccie we get them in at £650 a day ) not sure how much of that the person sees). We had one Director of IT we were allegedly paying £1000 a day - he [strike]got fired[/strike] resigned after 9 months - nearly jason_s rates:)

jason_s_2

£1000 a day:eek: in my dreams

margaretclare

Where I live we are surrounded by small builders. If we ask one of them to do a job for us, they're on the spot, if we have any complaints they're living in the same street! Also most of them never advertise, they have enough work to do without advertising. I would far rather get to know a local small builder who is one of my neighbours, than employ any foreigner who can be here today and gone tomorrow - if I have any complaints about his work he's a thousand miles away so no redress.

I learned a lot when we were doing up that crumbling Pennine cottage between 1973 and 1990. In particular I learned about roofers. When we needed our roof replaced 2 years ago in the bungalow where we live now - it was 70-year old asbestos tiles which had to be replaced with modern concrete tiles and the roof beams strengthened - we asked one of the builders who are our neighbours for a recommendation. He gave us the name of a local roofing firm who did a very good job at a fair price. Since then 2 other neighbours who saw the work being done have had their roofs done by the same small firm. Everyone happy.

I advised the OP to do the roof first, and he talks about ripping out the kitchen. What's the point of bothering with kitchens, replastering rooms etc if the rain is just going to come in through the broken tiles? You have to start with what's most important and then decide what you can do for yourself and what you have to get in a skilled professional to do.

knightstyle

Simple tip I meant to post earlier, before you allow any one to work in your house insist they give you a copy of their public liability insurance. If they can't they are cowboys! You still need to check with recent customers.

jason_s_2

Thats does helps knightstyle, but the some of the cowboys have insurance. For about £80 and you get covered for about a £1,000,000. Its the ref's that really help.

jblack_2

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

I know i graft for the job and thats an IT role that i'm sure requires more technical skill than being a builder.

Now i wont take credit away from builders as i know there's a skill involved but sometime getting a corgi registered qualification and then charging £200 per day/job is taking the pi55 BIG time. Ive got techy qualifications too.

I assume you aren't self employed? What overheads do you have in your job? Liability insurance? Tools insurance? Van insurance? Sickness cover? Advertising? Van tax? Waste carriers licence? Waste disposal licence? Replacement tools? Van servicing? Corgi qualifications every 5 years? Membership to governing bodies? The list goes on......

I am one of the self-employed 'con-men'. It's easy enough for the 9-5 office worker to moan about the costs of decent tradesmen. They go home and switch off at the end of the day. I have to finish up on site then drive to various places to give quotes for future work (BTW, who pays for the fuel used when the quotes are free?). When I do get home I then have paperwork to do. I'm lucky to sit down before 9pm most nights. I choose to be my own boss and I know the buck starts and stops with me. That's the way I like it and love working for myself.

What happens when you wake up feeling rough? You call in sick, right? Get yourself a doctors note and your laughing for a few days. If I don't work I don't get paid, simple as that.

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

would be curious to know how much it cost for the odd plumbing, plastering about 20 years ago. I know there's been inflation etc but just like most of us agree the house prices are ridiculous these days, the same goes for odd jobs like this.

I would like to know how the rules and regs regarding any aspect of the building trade have also changed over the last 20 years. Maybe there's a link there:rolleyes:

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

Spoke to my brother and his mate who have both done pointing before and my brother said pay my mate £30 per day and him £15 plus the materials and they'd be more than happy to do it. They have plenty of times on their hand and i am confident they can achieve the same results taking their time on it. It's 5 days vs 1 day (with a pro) but the cost is £250ish vs. £1500.

I assume they're declaring that to the taxman? They have plenty of time on their hands, I wonder why?

What sort of guarantee are you getting with their work? Are they even doing it right?

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

I know a 20 year old whose been doing odd jobs in building for about 2 years and he has £40,000 stashed away in his bank. Not jealous but i think there's something wrong here.

If he's doing well for himself then surely it says something about his work? Not jealous? Not much?

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

The job/market rates need looking at in UK or i need to pay for a plumbing course and start ripping people off like most of these builders are (and yes it is daylight robbery). In fact i challenge a builder who makes these rates to work 1 month in McDonalds on the wage they pay and tell me which is harder...Maybe then you will realise, people work extremely hard for pennies.

People are entitled to charge what they like, if it's too much they'll soon have to lower their prices. I could sit here and say IT workers are paid too much and bang on about how they just sit and click a mouse all day but I'm not as ignorant as you seem to be.

Mcdonalds pays it's staff what it does for a reason. It's not called 'unskilled labour' for nothing. I'm sure they don't spend 5 years on less than minimum wage doing an apprenticeship.

sho_me_da_money wrote: »

Charge millionaires the £200 per day rate, but treat people on a case by case basis. Is it fair to charge David Beckham £200 on a plumbing job and me in my council home the same thing? Is it F.

Why not? It's taking me just as long and costing me just as much to do the job. Besides, you've got private property too.

You really do seem to have a chip on your shoulder about people earning more than you do. Would you be saying the same thing if the boot was on the other foot? I doubt it. The IT market was the up-and-coming thing a few years ago and everyone jumped on the band wagon, it was flooded. Supply and demand my friend.

If you don't want to pay proper prices for proper tradesmen get your brother and his mate to do the job for you:rotfl:.

J