Work related drepression - what are my rights?

scousemicky

Posted this in relpy somewhere else but someone advised to start a new thread, dont know if this is the right place for it but here goes...

I've been in my job for 5 years this September. 4 years ago I brought a grievience complaint against a senior manager as I felt I was being harrassed. This complaint was heard by the general manager who gave it in favour of the senior manager. I did'nt appeal as I was off work during this period for 4 months with work related depression and didnt want the hassle.(all documented by work and doctor).

I'm off work again with work related depression, stress and anxiety (again all documented).

The depression this time is to do with me having to go through a disciplinary meeting. The reason for it is this 'your conduct relating to your absence on 11th April 2008'.

I'm an IT Technician in a college for people with disabilities, and just after I started work I volunteered to do Technical assessments on students, which involved me assessing them to see what specialised hardware/software they could use to get them through there course.

My 'conduct' was that I stayed off work, sick with stress at having to do these assessments. I had'nt mentioned this to anyone as I tend to say nout and bottle things up. These assessments are not part of my job description or job specifications.

I've had an informal meeting with my manager, a formal return to work interview, another meeting to let me know there would be an investigation (at which I was accussed of taking the day off work for no reason) and another meeting to tell me the outcome of the investigation - disciplinary procedure to commence.

After the last meeting I had to go off sick with depression stress and anxiety as I could'nt take much more. Last September they give me a formal verbal warning at a return to work interview which caused me to go off sick with depression again for a few days. They then withdrew the warning.

I saw something about risk assessments on another post. I've never had any risk assessments done on me or my workplace.

I'm also looking for other work and thinking of resigning as you just feel you want to get out and make a fresh start.

Any advice on what my best course of action is would be appreciated. Can I claim anything off them? I'm not in any pension schemes.

If any other info is needed just ask.

Thanks

dmg24

Hi scousemickey,

I'm sorry to hear that you have been unwell, but I am concerned that you need to look at the way that you are handling the situation.

Have you had depression continuously since the incident four years ago, or was that a separate incident?

Although the technical assessments were not part of your contract, you did volunteer to do them. If you were not capable, or there was another reason that you could not do them, you needed to raise this with your manager at the time. The management cannot do anything to alleviate your stress or depression if they are not aware of it.

When you had a day off on 11th April, did you follow the sickness absence procedure? Is this the only time that you have had off in the past year?

With no disrespect meant, I am concerned at your reaction to the disciplinary measures. It does appear that everytime you are threatened with disciplinary action, you go off sick. This does not look good to the employer, and thinking about your own health, you really need to find a way to manage your reaction to stressful situations. In this respect, it may be suitable to request Cognitive Behavioural Therapy through your GP (although there may be a waiting list) to enable you to manage situations more effectively.

Also, I'm not sure what you would intend to claim from your employer?

quickstepqueen

Hi Scousemickey

Just wanted to send hugs. In my last job I ended up leaving because of stress/depression. I felt more depressed and stressed every time I thought about going back to work, and like yourself, the thought of meetings and disciplinaries makes you stressed even more.

Initially I had had some time off work (lots of odd days) and they spoke to me about it then eventually they called me into a disciplinary type meeting. I felt like they were getting at me and questioning my time off, like I was some fraudster. (Though I don't think they were but in my head it seemed that way.)

In the end I became more ill and was signed off work for some time. Work kept in contact, even making arranged home visits (very stressful) to see how I was and what they could do for me. However I eventually told my employer that I felt unable to return to work, even though I wanted to, and that I had thought about returning to either a different job/hours within the company but knew that in my current state of mental health even that wasn't workable so I said i would leave. It was a kind of resignsation but with mutual consent (i.e. I didn't just leave or was sacked (and this helped when it came to me finally leaving work and applying for Incapacity Benefit.)

For me I have since realised that when something bugged me at work I wouldn't come out and address it to the person concerned. I would moan about it to others but wouldn't confront the issue head on. I always felt that constructive criticism was just criticism, something bad. I now realise that what I should have done was empower myself, get some "tools" so that I could tackle the issue....not a mean feat by any means because I felt that addressing such an issue would cause confrontation and possibly make the situation worse.

I really feel for you as this seems to be a very difficult situation that is obviously making you ill even further. I cannot tell you what you can do but perhaps if you have to attend any future disciplinary type meetings you could take someone with you for support (my employers procedure allowed this.)

Also, I read in your post that you tend to bottle things up and not say anything. That sounded like me and I wonder whether as the previous person stated that seeing some sort of counsellor might help. They could perhaps help you look at why you bottle things up and why you feel unable to talk these issues through. Are you afraid of confrontation, of not saying the right thing, or perhaps you feel like you might make things worse. Seems like this might be worth looking at because if you do change your job and the new employer starts to "put upon" you, would the same scenario occur. Would you let things bottle up inside until it made you ill.

I really do wish you all the luck in the world.

Bunnie1982

I'm thinking perhaps an Assertiveness course might be useful as well, as this could help you deal with confrontation.

Perhaps you could contact ACAS for some impartial advice.

If you have had a lot of time off ill have the college referred you to Occupational Health?

Would you be able to tell us more about the harassment? Cos that might help us understand the cause of your stress, anxiety and depression

scousemicky

Quickstepqueen, everything you felt when in a similar situation is exactly how I feel now.

The harrassment incident was when a senior manager requested me to work an extra 8 hours on a saturday, I refused and she threatned me with a warning if I refused to do it. As she repeated this threat 3 times I was advised by the CAB to write a grevience letter, which I did. My manager present when she threatned me but in his statement he lied and said no threats were made (he had only been in the job a few weeks so maybe this is why he lied). She left the college just before I returned to work and that was a huge relief as you can imagine!

After my absence last September when they gave me a formal verbal warning at a return to work interview then withdrew it, there was conveniently no return to work interview!

I thought all these procedures were put in place to help the employee, not to make him/her worse. They've offered me nothing and suggested nothing to help me feel better Infact it was myself who has offered my employers the opportunity for me to go to an independant Doctor for a report on my health, but they have turned this offer down.

I did follow the absence procedure on the day I was off, which was to contact work before 10am. The reason i gave was that I had no had any sleep that night due to worrying about doing yet another technical assessment, felt stressed out and dizzy. I told them that I did'nt want to do the assessments no more, I would do what was in my job description.

At one of the meetings my Manager said that the technical assessments come under 'any other duties' in my job description. I disagree as there are business's that specialise in these ie abilitynet and they charge £££'s to assess someone with disabilities. It's a highly skilled job.

It just feels like there 'out to get me'. Maybe thats just the way I feel, I don't know.

The stress started with me being worried about these assessments, now it's escalated into depression because of people.

When I spoke about a claim, I meant is there anything I can do if they dismiss me because there's no way I can work with these people again.

Also, if I found another job could I start there straight away or would I need a letter off my Doctor? Plus would I need to resign first? Also, what about references?

Thanks for the responses, appreciated.

dmg24

scousemicky wrote: »

Quickstepqueen, everything you felt when in a similar situation is exactly how I feel now.

The harrassment incident was when a senior manager requested me to work an extra 8 hours on a saturday, I refused and she threatned me with a warning if I refused to do it. As she repeated this threat 3 times I was advised by the CAB to write a grevience letter, which I did. My manager present when she threatned me but in his statement he lied and said no threats were made (he had only been in the job a few weeks so maybe this is why he lied). She left the college just before I returned to work and that was a huge relief as you can imagine!

As this happened so long ago, it really is irrelevant with regard to what is happening now.

After my absence last September when they gave me a formal verbal warning at a return to work interview then withdrew it, there was conveniently no return to work interview!

That doesn't make sense - you say they gave you a warning at the return to work interview, but there was no interview?

How much time have you had off in the past year, and for what reasons?

I thought all these procedures were put in place to help the employee, not to make him/her worse. They've offered me nothing and suggested nothing to help me feel better Infact it was myself who has offered my employers the opportunity for me to go to an independant Doctor for a report on my health, but they have turned this offer down.

What do you want them to do to help you, and have you actually asked for this to happen?

I did follow the absence procedure on the day I was off, which was to contact work before 10am. The reason i gave was that I had no had any sleep that night due to worrying about doing yet another technical assessment, felt stressed out and dizzy. I told them that I did'nt want to do the assessments no more, I would do what was in my job description.

TBH if someone rang me with such vague reasons, I would be dubious. As noted below, you need to be honest and direct with your employer.

At one of the meetings my Manager said that the technical assessments come under 'any other duties' in my job description. I disagree as there are business's that specialise in these ie abilitynet and they charge £££'s to assess someone with disabilities. It's a highly skilled job.

As you volunteered to do the assessments, and as you have done them for so long, then through your actions you accepted that they were part of your duties.

It just feels like there 'out to get me'. Maybe thats just the way I feel, I don't know.

I'm sorry, but I can't see anything in what you have written that implies that they are out to get you.

The stress started with me being worried about these assessments, now it's escalated into depression because of people.

You need to be more honest with your employers. You need to specify exactly what it is about the assessments and the work that make you ill. They cannot do anything without this information.

When I spoke about a claim, I meant is there anything I can do if they dismiss me because there's no way I can work with these people again.

Your employer has done nothing wrong. You would have no claim against them.

Also, if I found another job could I start there straight away or would I need a letter off my Doctor? Plus would I need to resign first? Also, what about references?

If you are currently covered by a sick note, you cannot work for that period unless your doctor declares you fit for work again. You would have to resign from your current employment before starting a new role, and your employer may insist that you do not start new employment until the end of your notice period.

Thanks for the responses, appreciated.

If your current employer was willing to give you a reference (they do not have to), it has to be factual. It may state the time that you have had off sick, and that you had been subject to disciplinary action, or it may just give the dates that you worked there.

bestpud

Give ACAS a call and see what they say.

I'm a little confused about the problem you have with these assessments.

Have you always found them difficult and were you given any training for them? Are you determined you will not do them, or is there something your employer could do to make them less stressful? What exactly is it that causes the problem for you?

Maybe they could help if you were specific about the issue because going off sick every time they try to insisit you do your job is not going to help. They can't offer you any help if they don't know what the problem is, and all you seem to have told them is that you don't want to do they because they are stressful.

Tbh, employment procedures have actually helped you a lot, because without them, you'd have been out on your ear for refusing to do your job! I'm not saying that is the right thing to do, but just that they have been pretty patient really, as it is you who is causing the problem imo (not in being ill or finding the job stressful, but because you haven't given them a fair chance to resolve the problem).

Sorry if that seems harsh - it's just my opinion, based on your posts.

Zazen999

Hi ScouseMickey.

Sorry to hear you aren't feeling tip top.

Are you saying that if you didn't have to do these assessments, everything would be ok; you could do your job properly and would be back at work and fit and healthy?

How soon after volunteering did you realise that you were not qualified/capable of carrying out these assessments; and when did you bring this to the attention of your manager?

Personally, if you haven't brought this to the attention of anyone properly, and are just avoiding going to work to avoid doing them; I would call your manager, make an appointment to see them and bring it all out into the open. Tell them what happened when, and ask to come to an agreement that you do the job you were originally employed to do - and that they make alternative arrangements for the assessment side of it. It seems that you got in too deep and can't get yourself out. I would also have an answer as to why you volunteered in the first place when you weren't qualified to do them.

Don't bring it as a grievance, as technically they haven't done anything wrong, as dmg says - if someone called in sick with vague symptoms then i too would be suspicious. It's not they are out to get you, but they are paying your wages and presumably they need you back at work.

Finally, be under no illusion. Procedures are there for the company to their employees back to their work as quickly as possible. I don't know of any manager that enjoys them; so if you can approach them with a solution rather than a problem, and keep to your end of the bargain, then things could turn out better for you without you having to change jobs etc.

quickstepqueen

Zazen999..your advice is sound and written in the right light. However I wonder if perhaps ScouseMickey would have difficulties in approaching their management based on their first experiences i.e. when a manager was present when a threat was made, but manager lied about it and didn't back up scousemickey. Maybe the OP feels they wouldn't be believed or backed up in this instance. That if they have a problem with the "other duties" i.e. assessments that they will be threatened with a warning/be sacked. Perhaps this earlier experience is overshadowing in some way the current situation.

When I felt "picked on", in my previous situation there was no way I could have approached my manger ..... I was way too scared. For me being assertive equalled being confrontational. I couldn't distinguish the two. I didn't know how to handle situation. Being open and honest is the right thing to do..but can be difficult if the OP perhaps feels a bit scared at the thought of approaching management.

Scousemickey....you volunteered to do these assesments originally...on top of your current job?? Were you asked by management if you wanted to take this on or were the assessments something you saw could be done and you initiated it all?

Could you perhaps, write down a sort of pros and cons list to doing these assessments. You don't have to do it here but it might help clarify what the actual problem is. If you write the list privately, no-one else can see that, not your manager, just you. You can rip it up if you want. You can put all sorts of stuff down on that list, open your heart, don't be afraid. YOU would be in control of that list. Then look at that list and see if a solution can be found. If the solution seems far too big and scary sometimes that be broken down into more manageable pieces (i.e. if you need to approach your manager but feel scared to then try and seek some assertiveness techniques to help achieve that goal.) It seems to be that it's all a bit scary for you right now, and seeking assistance might be scary, but I guess you have 2 choices. Stay scared or try a step forward which is still scary but could lead to something positive.

I do wish you all the best and I'm sure that the right solution will present itself somehow. In my last job I wasn't assertive enough but by going through that experience and getting some help I can now recognise where I went wrong, and whilst I am still not at all good at confrontation I at least don't turn into a quivering wreck at the first signs of it.

CFC

Scousemickey, I sympathise with the way you feel but if I was your manager I would be concerned with the way it appears from a management perspective; you volunteer to do a job, do it, then say you can't do it and you shouldn't have to because there are companies that charge a lot of money to do it, then appear to go off sick because you don't want to do it. I'm not being horrible by saying this, but honestly managers have got other things to do that are rather more important to them than trying to read your mind....you HAVE to tell them the real problem.

You may be afraid to approach your manager openly; but you will certainly gain nothing unless you can get the answers to the questions asked by other posters out into the open. ie, why you find the assessments so stressful, why you originally volunteered to do the task etc., and what your employers could do to assist you.

It won't be a suitable answer to say 'it would be a lot less stressful and would assist me if I didn't have to do those assessments' as that's not an answer - it may be that you feel you need more training, it may be that you need some of your other work removed so you don't feel overloaded etc.

ceejayblue

quickstepqueen wrote: »

Hi Scousemickey

Just wanted to send hugs. In my last job I ended up leaving because of stress/depression. I felt more depressed and stressed every time I thought about going back to work, and like yourself, the thought of meetings and disciplinaries makes you stressed even more.

Initially I had had some time off work (lots of odd days) and they spoke to me about it then eventually they called me into a disciplinary type meeting. I felt like they were getting at me and questioning my time off, like I was some fraudster. (Though I don't think they were but in my head it seemed that way.)

In the end I became more ill and was signed off work for some time. Work kept in contact, even making arranged home visits (very stressful) to see how I was and what they could do for me. However I eventually told my employer that I felt unable to return to work, even though I wanted to, and that I had thought about returning to either a different job/hours within the company but knew that in my current state of mental health even that wasn't workable so I said i would leave. It was a kind of resignsation but with mutual consent (i.e. I didn't just leave or was sacked (and this helped when it came to me finally leaving work and applying for Incapacity Benefit.)

For me I have since realised that when something bugged me at work I wouldn't come out and address it to the person concerned. I would moan about it to others but wouldn't confront the issue head on. I always felt that constructive criticism was just criticism, something bad. I now realise that what I should have done was empower myself, get some "tools" so that I could tackle the issue....not a mean feat by any means because I felt that addressing such an issue would cause confrontation and possibly make the situation worse.

I really feel for you as this seems to be a very difficult situation that is obviously making you ill even further. I cannot tell you what you can do but perhaps if you have to attend any future disciplinary type meetings you could take someone with you for support (my employers procedure allowed this.)

Also, I read in your post that you tend to bottle things up and not say anything. That sounded like me and I wonder whether as the previous person stated that seeing some sort of counsellor might help. They could perhaps help you look at why you bottle things up and why you feel unable to talk these issues through. Are you afraid of confrontation, of not saying the right thing, or perhaps you feel like you might make things worse. Seems like this might be worth looking at because if you do change your job and the new employer starts to "put upon" you, would the same scenario occur. Would you let things bottle up inside until it made you ill.

I really do wish you all the luck in the world.

This sounds so much like me. I've been off from work for 4 weeks now with stress/anxiety and now depression/panic attacks. My problem is my manager and every time she has made me upset, picked on me or just been nasty in general I have always put up with it. When she asks me if it is her I sometimes say yes because of the way she spoke to me but most times I bottle it up.

I've got a meeting with my manager and the HR Adviser tomorrow in my home. I'm dreading it but I do have the HR Manager on my side (she likes me and called me today to give me her support!). One thing I've learned is that I must not bottle things up but it is hard and tomorrow my OH has said I must tell my boss exactly why I'm off - her! I said I will try but it is very hard when faced with the perpetrator of your misery in front of you!

I can't believe how many of us have been suffering in the workplace - I knew I wasn't the only one but the number of people on this forum and others that I'm on show me that this is widespread. It feels like an epidemic!