Wescot Credit Services and ntl 'debt' (merged)

Simon6776

Right folks, I've drafted a letter, let me know what you think:-

Wescot Credit Services Ltd
PO Box 137
Dunedin House
45 Percy Street
HULL
HU2 8HF

Re:- Attached Notice of Debt Collection:- [Ref number]


Further to my telephone conversation with [name of person] today, I am writing to confirm that I dispute this claim from your clients in the strongest possible terms.

My account with Gio Internet was opened on 21st April 2002, at which time, I paid, through WorldPay, an amount of £7.99 for one month’s internet access. During the first week of trying to use the service, I found it to be unreliable, consistently unavailable, and therefore unusable. I subsequently cancelled the service on May 1st 2002, and I have documentary evidence to support this. As the service from Gio Internet was to be paid in advance, there should have been no reason why they would have continued to provide the service, after the cancellation date, as the service would not have been pre-paid, and they have absolutely no grounds whatsoever on which to base this demand for 9 months additional payments, totalling £71.91, for services which they did not provide, and I did not use. Their minimum contract term for the service I subscribed to was 1 month, for which I pre-paid. I have found some of the Gio Interner / WorldPay T&Cs, which I believe to be relevant, and would draw your attention to the following excerpt:-

“Gio Internet uses WorldPay for its online payments… The following is of paramount importance:- WorldPay will attempt to collect payment on a monthly basis for any ongoing services, should a payment fail, WorldPay will attempt three times to collect the payment for that month, after the third attempt your account will be terminated with immediate effect and you have to re-subscribe to the service if payment has not been collected. Should you for any reason decide to cancel the WorldPay agreement your account will again be terminated immediately, and you will have to re-subscribe and pay any administration / activation charges.”

I have further documentary evidence of my switching to a new ISP around the time of my cancellation with Gio Internet, and shortly after that, I switched permanently to Broadband Internet access, thus I would quite obviously have no need of a slow, unreliable account with Gio, and their records will show that I never re-subscribed to any of their services.

Your letter does not provide, or offer to provide, any evidence that I owe any outstanding payments to any parties involved, and I regard your allegation with the utmost concern, as a default added to my credit rating, could very seriously affect my future quality of life. If this were to happen, I would have no hesitation in suing for defamation of character. I was informed today, by [name of person], that you have put this case ‘on hold’ while you contact Gio Internet, with a view to obtaining documentary evidence to support their claim. I am certain that they will not be able to produce any such evidence, and that they have absolutely no grounds for this claim against me. I await your written confirmation that you will be closing this matter, with immediate, and permanent effect. I would also request that you delete my personal records from your system. Further, I consider that there may be a case to answer, by Gio Internet, and yourselves, regarding breach of privacy issues, demanding money with menaces, and distress, caused by the nature of this ludicrous claim, and I am considering my own further actions in this matter.

My Name.

mattgod69

Simon....

That sounds good. Mine was much much shorter and it will be interesting to see if we get the same (or any) response.

I have a couple of mates who went with GIO. One also got a demand yesterday for £190. He has paid it, purely because of the effect on his credit rating and he is going to try and get it back off them. I recon he has more chance of getting pigs to fly!

I am not clear on whether this sort of demand can affect your credit rating as I have always paid my bills. I, well logic, would have thought that to actually get blacklisted the comany would need to prove to a court you owe the debt and more importantly would need to prove they have taking all reasonable steps to get you to pay (i.e. write to you asking for payment) not going straight to a debt collection agency. The more I think about it, the whole thing is absolutley obsurd and must not be allowed to continue. We are the ones who are able to fight and know some if all of our rights. I feel sorry for the ones who will be scared and frightened by this and just pay up..... actions like this at this time of year especially is unforgivable.

Right, thats my ranting done with! If anyone wants to swap email addresses etc, phone numbers then let me know. It may be best to try and think of a more secure way of doing it.... msn messenger, chatroom or something like that, beacuse these forums are obviously saved for all to view!!!!

Regards.

Matt

Simon6776

Apparently, Debt Collection Agencies can screw up your credit rating, by placing a 'default', but are reluctant to do so before the case is proved, as they could then potentially be sued for defamation.

As you say, Matt, Gio should have written first. There is a procedure for recovering debts, and I believe they have breached that procedure by going straight to the Debt Collectors, so even if some of the debts are proved, the fact that Gio have gone about it the wrong way, may scupper any chances they had of recovery anyway. I'm not certain of that, so don't quote me, but I do believe it to be true.

mattgod69

Simon

Thats not good. I might need to pay up then, but I may only pay the £7.99 that I might owe. That is certinally the maximum! Its stupid really, because I dont owe it and it is not I contacted another mate who went with GIO he said that although he cancelled three months ago (with GIO not Worldpay) they have continued to take money. What a mess this is!!!!

Matt

Yukes123

I personally feel that Westcot will be VERY reluctant to take anyone to court as they will HAVE to prove a genuine case against the individual and it's obvious from these pages that this is going to be extremely hard to do. Gio's admin is apalling - they've actually admitted to Westcot that they've NEVER contacted me about this "so called" debt. Rather than pay my debt which was £39.95 I have spoken to Westcot and demanded proof in the form of statements and copies of unpaid bill/bills. If you do this they will put the case on "hold" hopefully giving you enough time to do your own investigating & research.

I will be contacting Trading Standards & Watchdog whatever the outcome as I'm almost certain that many people will just purely be intimidated into paying a debt which was never really theirs to settle.

No presents to Gio this year Santa - they've been BAAD :P

Simon6776

Simon

Thats not good. I might need to pay up then, but I may only pay the £7.99 that I might owe. That is certinally the maximum! Its stupid really, because I dont owe it and it is not I contacted another mate who went with GIO he said that although he cancelled three months ago (with GIO not Worldpay) they have continued to take money. What a mess this is!!!!

Matt

Matt, you may be in a trickier position, if you think you do indeed owe the money, but as I said, Wescot will be reluctant to risk themselves being sued, by placing a 'default' on your credit rating prematurely. Even if this happens, providing you can prove that the case is flawed, or non-existant through lack of evidence, it shouldn't be difficult to have the 'default' removed. Obviously it's up to you. For £7.99, I may well have decided to compromise my principals, just to get rid of them, but if you pay this one, what's stopping them issuing another fictitious claim, on the basis that you paid up without a fight? Let's face it, most of these claims are fictitious.

captainpugwash_2

This morning I've had another lengthy chat with the debt collectors we use for debt recovery as I'm more concerned about wescot issuing a default at Experian and Equifax for non payment of this outrageous demand.

The good news is that it seems wescot cannot legally enforce a default against your credit report without judgment being passed in their favor. However, they can do something if the debt is with a business as opposed to an individual.

If they decided to pursue each case they would only be able to recover the principle debt plus around £30 court fee’s and £25 solicitors fee’s apparently this measure has been put in place for debts under £5k mainly to stop debt recovery agencies suing everyone.

Finally, if they send around bailiffs and they don’t provide a court warrant (which again can only be issued on judgment) then just shut the door in their face, if they enter your property without this warrant they are trespassing and you should get straight on the phone to the police.

In my opinion I truly believe that Gio are doing this as a damage limitation exercise, if the rumors are true and they owe money to another ISP then it’s a lot easier to pass the buck and say the reason they haven’t paid is because all these invoices are overdue.

The courts may then show mercy and let them carry on trading.

Please note - this isn’t legal advice as I’m not a solicitor - and have no legal background I’m only sharing with you my own personal experience and thoughts on the subject.

CaptainPug

Simon6776

We seem to be following each other about, Cap'n! Reassuring advice there. I'm really not all that worried about this now, in fact it's almost laughable that Gio are such idiots that they thought they could have got away with this!

steady__eddie

Paid a visit to my local Trading Standards today, explained the situation and seeing as how the sum demanded is exactly divisible by the monthly amount I was paying to Big Blue for an inferior service, I figure that an "administrative error" may have occurred.

His advise :
Send printed copies of monthly payment acknowledgements from Worldpay together with copies of monthly credit card statements by recorded delivery to GIO and Westcot to prove that I had made payment. In addition demand that they supply you with info. that they have supplied to credit reference agency and if in the light of your proof of payment, demand that they rectify any possible inaccuracies. give them a time limit (say 10 working days) in which they must respond to your request.

He said that prior to his present job, he worked for a bank and they often dealt with Westcot who are a bona-fide and legitimate company. I did not concur with his second description ! He also said that it was unlikely that Westcot would actively pursue debts of less than £250. In addition to this, they (or their representatives) cannot enter your premises until they obtain a court order to do so.

He was quite cool in his manner until I mentioned Martin Lewis and M.S.E. and I was sure that this was going to go national judging by the response on here. Then the pen comes out and he rapidly starts taking notes and asking questions.

In the light of this input courtesy of Trading Standards, can somebody design an amended template ?

Finally, does anybody know the score on recorded delivery ? Is it a fixed cost or by weight ? I reckon it's gonna cost a few bob with several copies of acknowledgements and credit card statements.

WilliamT

Finally, does anybody know the score on recorded delivery ? Is it a fixed cost or by weight ? I reckon it's gonna cost a few bob with several copies of acknowledgements and credit card statements.

Its 65p plus the cost of normal first or second class post, so not all that expensive.