Downright rude correspondance from letting agent

paintpot

I am a landlord and I agree with you that I do not like the tone of their letter. If they had an issue they should have kept to the facts rather than making remarks like "it looked like you had been burgled", that's unprofessional and unncessary.

When I assess properties, I am simply looking to ensure that the tenant is not causing any damage and that's where things can become slightly tricky. Take an oven for example, if the tenant never cleans it and it becomes a greasy, burnt on mess, then I would begin to call that damage as once an oven reaches that stage it is very difficult to get them clean again and to employ a professional cleaner or hours and hours of elbow grease it can become uneconomical and you may as well get a new one because I wouldn't give my new tenant a crusty old oven. That's just an example. However, I have "messy" tenants and if they want to leave their washing on the floor, bed unmade, washing up in the sink then that's fine as it's how they choose to live, everyone lives differently. There would be a level of dirt/mess that I would draw the line at though. You have to take a sensible view of things.

I would simply state that, should they have an issue with the condition of the flat then they should document those concerns to you in writing quoting the clause in the tenancy agreement you are deemed to have breached. I think they would find it difficult to make a coat lying on the sofa and clothes on the bed a breach of any clause.

Incisor

CookieMon wrote: »

How does this sound?
<snipped>

Snotty. No need to send a copy of the LA's letter back to them, don't 'complain' or 'demand an apology', as you just want them to b99r off and keep out of your hair [at least, that's what I would want]. The shorter and more to the point, the better.

Try this:

"We acknowledge receipt of your <Mr SoandSo's> letter dated 9th May 2008. Your complaint is unfounded as it relies upon a clause that we do not have in our signed Tenancy Agreement. Indeed your comment "I thought that there had been a break-in at first then realised it was simply just untidy" indicates that your complaint has no substance, since it is not directed to any failing in our duties under the tenancy agreement, rather it is directed against our right to quiet enjoyment.

Please understand that we expect to be allowed quiet enjoyment of the property to the extent we have enjoyed up to the present.

Concerning your intent to return for a further inspection, you are invited to attend on <choose time and date>. Before attending, you are invited to confirm to us that your quoted clause <whatever> does not in fact apply to our tenancy

A copy of this letter and yours has been forwarded to the landlord.

Just be doubly sure you are in the right over what the tenancy agreement states.

Poppy9

olly300 wrote: »

The majority of contents insurance policies now have clauses in them that state if something is stolen from your property and there are no signs of a break in you are not covered. So it doesn't matter whether you are a tenant or home owner in that case. (Yes I do read the small print in my policies.)

There are instances you are covered if there is no sign of forced entry. If your keys are stolen and used to gain access to your property before you've had time to secure your property or realised that they have been stolen then you are covered.

Poppy9

CookieMon wrote: »

EDIT: Does this sound better for the last paragraph?
A copy of this letter and your letter of 9th May has been forwarded to the landlord so that they are aware of the situation and that whilst we will keep the property in good repair and condition, we should be allowed to be as messy as we like.

I wouldn't admit to being messy as it's subjective.

Maybe:

A copy of this letter and your letter of 9th May has been forwarded to the landlord so that they are aware of the situation and that whilst we have and will continue to keep the property in good repair and condition our domestic arrangements are our personal business.

CookieMon

Our fixed shortterm lease has already expired and now we are on a periodic contract apparently.

Imp/Incisor: That's why I'm glad I posted it for people to read - I was worried my anger would come across in the wrong way and I do appreciate people's opinion.

On looking at my original post I have quoted something which was not the exact wording of the LA in the interest of fairness this is the exact wording:
"I was concerned at first with the cleanliness/tidyness, as I thought there may have been a break-in"
As I say I didn't realise I was paraphrasing at the time, apologies if this changes your mind, but to me it is essentially the same thing.

I do want them to bog off, but I would also like an apology - the wording to me is no more than like a parent chastising a child. I am no child and I do not like being treated that way.

With regards to being sure I'm in the right over the tenancy agreement - the letter has stated:

May I remind you of the Tenancy Agreement signed by you:
Tenant's Obligations
Section 11
The tenant agrees to use the property in a reasonable manner and the take reasonable care of the property including any fixtures and fittings and the keep the property and any fixtures and fittings in a clean and tidy condition throughout the term...

As I said before, our tenancy agreement contains no section 11, and no headed section for tenants obligations. The nearest clause I can see states:

Keep the property including all of the landlord's machinery and equipment clean and tidy and in good and tenantable condition, repair and decorative order ( reasonable wear and tear, items which the Landlord is responsible to maintain, and damage for which the Landlord has agreed to insure, excepted)

The clauses may be similar, but they are not the same. Surely a LA should consult the actual tenancy agreement before sending out information? Again this legal right is something I would appreciate some advice over. Can they legally enforce us to hang up our clothes at the end of the day?

Paintpot: We regularly thoroughly clean the bathroom and kitchen, the oven is sparkling clean inside and the hob only had a dirty pan on it we had not yet washed up from 2 days previous (yuck I know, but there was no mold etc, we just hadn't gotten round to washing it yet). Although the specifics are not mentioned, I am going to guess that it is the bedroom the LA is talking about as that is the only place that could even qualify for messy (ie clothes piled on the bed, draws open etc). We admit that the place was messy but it was not unclean.

amandajp_2

You may find it useful to refer to the Office of Fair Trading's guidance on unfair terms in tenancy agreements here - http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/publications/guidance/unfair-terms-consumer/oft356. If you go to page 63, table 4.1 this makes clear that tidiness is a potentially unreasonable condition.

I hope this helps.
Amanda

tbs624

The LAs visit & subsequent letter was obviously an intrusion that you could have done without, but I’d be tempted to keep it reasonably simple. Possible alternative for you:

Thank your for your letter of… following your recent inspection at the above address

Please note that we treat the property as our home, as we are entitled to do by law, and we therefore view your comments regarding tidiness as irrelevant.

As Letting Agents, you’ll be aware of a Tenant’s right to “quiet enjoyment” of the property: we’d like you to note that we do not consent to any future visits being undertaken in our absence and that access for repairs will only be granted at a mutually convenient time to be confirmed in writing.

We keep the property itself in a good condition and you’ll be aware that we pay our rent on time : we are sending a copy of this letter to the LL, as we are sure that s/he would not wish to lose long-term good tenants because of the intrusive behaviour of the LA.

Whatever they want to say about clauses in the contract they cannot dictate how you live, provided that you aren’t damaging the property. I wouldn’t even mention their clause errors unless they come back to you on the matter. It will burst their bubble more for their comments to be treated as the irrelevance that they are.

paintpot

Very well put TBS624. I'd go with that OP, no offence meant to others who have posted suggestions, I just think this is succinct and gets right to the route of the problem :T

neverdespairgirl

"We are writing this letter in response to the correspondence received from yourselves dated 9th May 2008 (enclosed within). We would like to complain primarily because of the unprofessional and rude nature that the Agent has conducting themselves with and secondly that the Agent's complaint is unfounded as it relies upon a clause that we do not have in our signed Tenancy Agreement.
We expect a full apology for the inconsiderate manner in which the letter was written and the right to quiet enjoyment from henceforth. We would like this letter placed on our file that now no agent of ******* are entitled to enter the property without our express written permission, unless in an emergency as is our right as tenants.
A copy of this letter has been forwarded to the landlord so that they are aware of the manner in which the letting agent they employ are conducting themselves."

My general view - keep it simple, and the language as simple as possible. Whatever you write, leave it overnight and re-read it before you send it.

"We write in response to your letter dated 9th May 2008, your ref XXXX [no need to enclose it]

We believe that the letter was unprofessional and rude. In addition, it relies on a clause stated to be in the tenancy agreement; having checked our copy, there is no such clause.

We would like this letter placed on our file that now no agent of ******* is entitled to enter the flatwithout our express written permission, unless in an emergency.

A copy of this letter has been forwarded to the landlord so that they are aware of the manner in which the letting agent he employs is conducting himself"

I've reduced the number of words, really (-:

50plusabit

The agent or landlord, Can-not enter the property without your permission. He has no right.
As long as you are not causing damage to the property, and the property is lefty in a good condition when you leave, there is nothing they can do. I would be inclined to send the letter to the agent first, it is them you should deal with. And if you do not get satisfaction, then write to the landlord.